Belaying with atc

I do not want to buy a new atc, but want to start doing multi pitch climbs. Is there anyway to belay while on top without a guide atc?

Teddy Bank wrote:

I do not want to buy a new atc, but want to start doing multi pitch climbs. Is there anyway to belay while on top without a guide atc?

Sure, just belay off your belay loop.  It’s how it was done forever prior to guide mode devices and is still a okay way to belay from the top.  

You can use a grigri to top-belay your second (refer to manuals for other assisted brake devices, I've never used anything but guide atc or grigri). If you're actually climbing multi-pitch, you've likely invested quite a bit into your rack, so pony up the extra ~25 bucks for a guide ATC. You'll want one eventually anyway.

There are situations in multi pitch where you may not want to belay in guide mode, less than ideal protection might be one instance, in that case I use what pro I can get in and then sit down if possible and belay from my belay loop while anchored to the pro I was able to get in.   In that case I want my body to act as part of the anchor and not belay directly off a less than ideal anchor.  If you start doing multi pitch trad routes you will inevitably come across belays where you will not have the luxury or gear needed for that “perfect” belay anchor and you will have to make do with what you have. 

You could use a Munter hitch to belay from the top. 

Teddy Bank wrote:

I do not want to buy a new atc, but want to start doing multi pitch climbs. Is there anyway to belay while on top without a guide atc?

Ultimately nobody should belay from a guide plate (e.g. ATC Guide or Petzl Reverso in guide mode) before aquiring self resque skills. This modern shit "we don't need no education! Amazing new shiny beautifully anodized pieces of we-don't-know-what will do the trick!" is just dangerous. Do not belay in guide mode without proper education and training. It is literally called guide mode because it is intended for guide (read: trained personal) use.

Uz da good old Munter hitch or belay from yer harness.

Save your pennies brother and buy a device that allows guide mode. I am one of the old guys on MP and I can assure you guide mode is a game changer when it comes to mult pitch climbing, and opens doors to safer, faster/efficient and more comfortable belaying. Till then, off your harness, or with a munter or Gri Gri are your options.

Climb safe my friend.

When belaying from the harness with an ATC, do you use a redirect? Or how do you get enough friction in the device to hold a fall from the one following from below if you don;'t use a redirect?

This kind of belay is not part of our climbing culture, so I am curious how you do it.

You can redirect if it doesn't add a bunch of rope drag, but often it does.  A common situation might find your anchor (gear, tree, etc) back from the edge, so belaying directly from the anchor, or redirecting through the anchor will be more difficult.  I often get myself up to the edge and then belay directly from my belay loop with my ATC.  If your climber falls, you simply pull your brake hand into the breaking position and hold the fall easily.  Since the rope is running down, the brake position is up, so you just pull up on the brake side.  Very simple.

This guy explains it better than I did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0736ni7-dqU&ab_channel=teamBMC

Pavel Burov wrote:

Ultimately nobody should belay from a guide plate (e.g. ATC Guide or Petzl Reverso in guide mode) before aquiring self resque skills. This modern shit "we don't need no education! Amazing new shiny beautifully anodized pieces of we-don't-know-what will do the trick!" is just dangerous. Do not belay in guide mode without proper education and training. It is literally called guide mode because it is intended for guide (read: trained personal) use.

Uz da good old Munter hitch or belay from yer harness.

Not sure I agree with your logic - it's even harder to escape the belay if belaying off your harness so one could argue that understanding rescue techniques is even more important if you're not using something in guide mode.  

Understanding rescue and self rescue techniques are important whenever multipitch climbing, regardless of belay style IMO.

Seems obvious! Thanks for the explanation Bob. I suppose you don't belay the follower with an ATC directly from the anchor? Allthough it still would be kind of possible in a similar way.

(Me? I do almost everything on a multipitch with the Munter.)

Redirect the belay through the anchor unless it's a terrible anchor that could fail. Please practice holding and lowering a climber from the top without a redirect with your climber near the ground. It requires more of a grip on the rope than a typical lead belay or top rope belay from the ground due to the rope not making the 180 degree bend as it would through a redirect, TR anchor, or protection placement. Also the climber's weight will be trying to pull you taut to that shitty anchor. 

The OP is a troll job.   I can smell it.

Kees van der Heiden wrote:

This kind of belay is not part of our climbing culture, so I am curious how you do it.

Yeah, to be culturally correct in today's climbing community, the starting package for multipitch includes a cordelette, two prussiks, a tibloc, a multipurpose PAS, a dedicated rap-extension sling, four extra lockers, a gri-gri and a half with an extra autoblocking rap device, and a minimum of a 70m rope. So don't even dream about going without an ATC guide. Can't be done. 

About three years ago, I was at a crag with both single and multipitch trad climbs. Another team just finished up leading a singlepitch 5.11 and were discussing what to do next. One of the guys really wanted to do a classic 3-pitch 5.9 with a walkoff. They frantically looked through their packs and one of the guys says: "Sorry, dude. I forgot the cordelette at home. We need to pick something else." I chuckled a bit and asked them: "How about that 60m cordelette you are carrying right there? Not good enough?" I was just completely baffled. 

FrankPS wrote:

You could use a Munter hitch to belay from the top. 

I've seen it done. Seems like that's starting to catch on now that people are becoming increasingly aware of problems with lowering off a guide. But doesn't that put curly ques in your rope? Is there I trick to avoid this? 

Kees van der Heiden wrote:

This kind of belay is not part of our climbing culture, so I am curious how you do it.

This was the only way until guide mode devices came along.  I still belay off my harness probably half the time, especially when on trad climbs where there are no handy bolted anchors.  It’s really not a big deal.   When the second falls, pull back on the brake hand.    

Highly recommend you find someone who knows how to climb multi pitch to go with you if you have to ask this question.

ViperScale wrote:

Highly recommend you find someone who knows how to climb multi pitch to go with you if you have to ask this question.

This is really what is missing today in climbing.  When I started climbing 40 years ago my dad took me out and taught me. When I progressed beyond my dads level I found mentors who taught me further to a point that I felt comfortable breaking out on my own. 

  Today it seems everyone learns the same thing or technique off the internet until a new technique comes out and replaces the old when the old really wasn’t broken and still works fine.  

Learn many different techniques. Go outside and play with them all until you are comfortable with them.  Keep them all in your toolbox for a time when a certain technique will work better than another.  Don’t get tunnel vision.  

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

This is really what is missing today in climbing.  When I started climbing 40 years ago my dad took me out and taught me. When I progressed beyond my dads level I found mentors who taught me further to a point that I felt comfortable breaking out on my own. 

  Today it seems everyone learns the same thing or technique off the internet until a new technique comes out and replaces the old when the old really wasn’t broken and still works fine.  

Learn many different techniques. Go outside and play with them all until you are comfortable with them.  Keep them all in your toolbox for a time when a certain technique will work better than another.  Don’t get tunnel vision.  

This is how I learned not that many years ago, I found someone who knows how to climb multi pitch and I went out with them. I still climb with some older guys who climbed back in the day from time to time. If you truly want to learn to climb just ask around on here for someone to go out and work with you or ask around your gym.

Jake Gounaris wrote:

problems with lowering off a guide

To my understanding they are not problems with lowering off a guide. They are more problems with substituting knowledge and training with new shiny anodized fancy colored mega-devices. People loose awareness of danger of climbing like "Hey! I've got a super-mega-device! It is sooooooo safe!"

Nope. There is no such a thing as safe climbing device.