Anyone out there experimenting with the Bechtel Logical Progression Format (Nonlinear)?

Mark E Dixon wrote:

Peter, I'll take your suggestions if Rui doesn't want them.

Assume access to the BRC and Spot.

A hang board set up at home with edges from 8 mm to 32 mm. Counterwieght system to add/remove weight up to about 100 pounds.

My dream goal would be a one arm on an 18 mm edge. 

Or even just an 8 second single arm hang on an 18 mm edge for that matter.

I don't care about two arm weighted pull ups.

Hey Mark, what make you pick the single hang (or pullup)?

I'd like to hear the answer too, Peter!

Thanks!

Mark E Dixon wrote:

My dream goal would be a one arm on an 18 mm edge. 

Not climb a 5.14 or a V10/+?   

tks wrote:

Hey Mark, what make you pick the single hang (or pullup)?

@ Peter- yes 18 mm. But even 25 would be pretty cool.

The large metolius is 32 mm I believe. I have a tension rung that size, but it hits your fingers in a weird, not very comfortable spot, so kind of unpleasant to train on.

@ Reboot- dream for the board, yes!

Me doing 14 or V10 would take a miracle or a lot of anabolics I think. 8a outside is a reasonable goal. Maybe I could climb a little harder eventually. 

@tks- as I've gotten on harder routes, I seem to find more occasions when I have only one hand hold to move off of. Of course, the key is still to position your body so that your legs do as much of the work as possible, but it still seems to demand a fair amount of one arm strength. 

Also, lockoffs depend on single arm strength.

I just don't find that many moves where both arms are at the same level as in a two arm pull up.

Played with that one-arm kettlbell press this afternoon. Warmed up with some barbell incline press and a few lighter bells, then barely got the 24kg up. I didn't even try the 28.

 It's a weird feeling movement, I expected more shoulder involvement, but it felt almost exclusively triceps. I can't imagine hitting 48kg at my size (140lb) without a year or more of training for it.  

The beast tamer folks lay out their rules on that linked page above: you have to start with fist below your chin, and you can't rest the KB on top of your shoulder partway through the movement. I thought "well sure, resting it on your shoulder would be cheating" but the way the movement tracks it was kind of hard for it not to go onto my shoulder, had to pay attention to not let it happen. It was novel, but I was there for a core workout and was happy to move on and leave the pressing to all those young airmen in the gym. 

I've been doing the KB overhead press bottoms up. Only 16 kg or so. 

Definitely adds to the excitement, what with the possibility of whacking yourself in the head or face if you lose control.

I figure at least one or two of the exercises in a weight routine ought to make you nervous.

Otherwise you're not really trying.

reboot wrote:

Not climb a 5.14 or a V10/+?   

5.14 or V10 would be much more feasible for most than a one arm off an 18mm edge

You know you're breaking my heart here?

Mark E Dixon wrote:

You know you're breaking my heart here?

Just sayin'  

Anyway, there's always the problem, "do you want to climb hard or train hard?"

Train hard doesn't depend (much) on weather  

Not going to help much if you can't do a one armer, but doing a one armer on a small edge is mostly being able to do a one armer on any hold and being able to hang off the small edge for 5-8 seconds.

Mark E Dixon wrote:

I figure at least one or two of the exercises in a weight routine ought to make you nervous.

Otherwise you're not really trying.

Just for you ;^)

The woman with the bands- classic. 

Nivel Egres wrote:

The guys on /r/climbharder are convinced that V10 is only possible if you can hang 2x your weight off 20mm edge (i.e. either a one-arm hang or a weighted hang). They even had a study to back it up (apparently, disregarding the obvious selection bias and miniature sample size).

Not that there is anything wrong with having strong fingers, but I'd imagine climbing hard problems involves many things...

That number is silly as is the argument that there is a standard measure for "V10 strength"

Nivel Egres wrote:

The guys on /r/climbharder are convinced that V10 is only possible if you can hang 2x your weight off 20mm edge (i.e. either a one-arm hang or a weighted hang). They even had a study to back it up (apparently, disregarding the obvious selection bias and miniature sample size).

Not that there is anything wrong with having strong fingers, but I'd imagine climbing hard problems involves many things...

Link?  I like the climb harder board a lot and that seems like a good average but that board definitely self selects for the training i.e. hang boarding obsessed.

Nivel Egres wrote:

The quick discussion

The actual "study"

PS. I recall a Spanish study where they show that climbers who climb primarily outside tend to be weaker for the grade vs people who are primarily indoor climbers (they took "best outdoor redpoint" as the self-reported benchmark).   

That seems very true just based on what I see locally. I'm weak as hell compared to friends who primarily just climb in the gym at the same grades. By the climb harder surveys I'm pretty sure that I'm supposed to just be climbing V2 or something silly low. 

There have been a few survey's on that site.

survey and discussion

I don't think the majority of people who frequent that site say you need to be able to hang 1 handed unassisted from 18mm edge to climb V10. IMO these types of surveys are more just meant to help you assess strengths and weaknesses and are more relevant for crimpy bouldering then routes.

Eric8 wrote:

There have been a few survey's on that site.

survey and discussion

I don't think the majority of people who frequent that site say you need to be able to hang 1 handed unassisted from 18mm edge to climb V10. IMO these types of surveys are more just meant to help you assess strengths and weaknesses and are more relevant for crimpy bouldering then routes.

I'll bite. For the most part r/climbharder is about numbers because how are we going to have a conversation about how to pull with your toes? Measurable stuff just lends itself to the format a lot more easily.

ETA: wasn't meant as directly responsive to you

Mark E Dixon wrote:

You know you're breaking my heart here?

TYMLTK, your dream was on my mind during my lunch workout today & I fully support it! I really hope you succeed; it'll give me hope of drastically improving my climbing (or circus tricks) for the next 20 years!

I was able to do it (left a bit shaky) w both hands on the bottom middle hold of the beastmaker 2k. The small metolius rungs in the weight room felt quite slippery (flat side) but I'll keep working on it.

Jon Frisby wrote:

I'll bite. For the most part r/climbharder is about numbers because how are we going to have a conversation about how to pull with your toes? Measurable stuff just lends itself to the format a lot more easily.

Totally agree.  I was just trying to make the point that because climbharder self-selects for people interested in structured training, a portion of which is hangboarding, its users' hangboard numbers will tend to be higher than those of the average climber at a given grade.  I think others are saying similar things.  Climbharder is absolutely a great message board and one of the more sane resources for training information