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Misspelling, syntax, punctuation, etc. on MP.com

Rob D · · Queens, NY · Joined May 2011 · Points: 30

I'm an educator with AWFUL spelling! I've studied education and pedagogy for a while, and I think you'll notice that those raised in certain areas of the country (more progressive areas actually), generally in elementary school in the late 80's and early 90's, have a real gap in their writing and spelling ability. This is because of the push for "whole language" curriculum, and before Reader's and Writer's workshop were really firmly established separately from whole language. So while some of you might say, "They can't spell or type so they're idiots!" what it actually means is that they are a result of a push in progressive education to engage students in writing and reading at an early age, and frankly, for a lot of us it failed miserably. To add on to that, the advent of the computer and spell check as a requirement in most education past 3rd/4th grade in the mid 90's means that a lot of us have been able to use spell check (or even AUTO SPELL CHECK NOW!) to fix our mistakes. This doesn't deter from what we have to say, but it definitely puts a hamper on how it looks to those that were raised pre-whole language and in an era when you had to bring a dictionary with you to check spelling.

Although this might sound like a bunch of excuses, it's something that is talked a lot about in higher level education studies and it's symptomatic of a very specific era of education, especially in the North East and Western areas of the country. Sometimes early adopters are the first to find the mistakes and those of us that were lucky enough to come up through this are the examples of why we no longer use "whole language" in classrooms.

edit to say:
In my classroom, I regularly have to look up how to spell super simple words. My parents, who are both VERY well educated mathematicians are constantly ripping on me about it. I've written so many long papers that at this point, I just find any mistakes in the editing process. However, writing on forums doesn't exactly lead itself to editing and I spend so little time worrying about what I actually post that most of what I put online is just stream of conscious.

mountainhick · · Black Hawk, CO · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 120

Hey I spell it forgo, you spell it forego... let's fight.

And using "LOL" in a literate post, sheesh! So lazy!

Rob D · · Queens, NY · Joined May 2011 · Points: 30
Jake Jones wrote: Yeah. Not buying it. I know dipshits from 16 to 60 from all walks of life. It's laziness. They can't be bothered to do it correctly because they couldn't be bothered to learn it correctly. It doesn't bother me that much, I mean after all, you're the one that looks like an idiot when you speak and write incorrectly, not me. And I don't care what "background" or "era" you come from, it's not at all unreasonable to expect an adult to be able to correctly spell a five letter word in their native language. Most of this is subjective however because all of us make mistakes and could probably have our grammar, sentence structure, use of punctuation and spelling ripped apart by a true English professor. It's the people that obviously don't give a shit or make any effort whatsoever that really tweaks people I think. LOL @ Ben. I was joking, of course. Or was I? I agree with the sentiment that an Internet forum is akin to an informal conversation where slang is frequently used. It doesn't make you look any more educated though when you forego simple correct spellings- no matter what the venue.
Don't believe me all you want, but there are many many books written about the failures, faults, and strengths of the few years when whole language was taught. Yeah there is a certain laziness to it, but I know a lot of "dumb" people who can spell correctly while I know quite a few professors or phd candidates that have their papers proofed to death. Part of my girlfriend's job is editing other peoples' copy and she is appalled at my inability to grasp very simple rules in grammar. The truth is, no one ever taught me the stuff and so most of what I've picked up has either been from the green squiggly underline in Word, or from the extensive reading I do. Of course reading fiction leads to just as many mistakes!

Is laziness part of it? Absolutely. But I don't think that you can discount a person's education background and say "Everyone should be the same because I SAID SO" when in fact a lot of us are learning as we're living instead of learning in classrooms.
Richard M. Wright · · Lakewood, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 9,090

Look, someone posted a forum concerning our climbing "pet peeves" which had many entries related to MP.com and not climbing per se, and the glaring gramatical errors that crop up on MP.com is a minor, but not too serious an annoyance, hence this posting, however, I am a little surprised by the willingness of some respondents to simply blow off poor use of English, we've come to this juncture where Education, yes the big "E", and Educators are blamed for our falling standards, we've come to a juncture where 18 of 19 industrialized nations out-perform us in the sciences, math, and, yes, language skills, yet we are quite content to ignore simple habits, such as review and editing, that would in some measure improve our habits with respect language, now I don't think we need to get anal about it, but before hitting the "Submit" button take a moment to review the content, if you are unsure about spelling, look up the word, it will not take long, and it is worth remembering that what you send off to MP.com is automatically placed in the public realm, subject to public consumption, and subject to public scrutiny, furthermore, you will not loose any macho points or letters off your on-sight level if you do take a moment to both reflect on and review what you are about to submit, consider John Long with as many stud points as he has but still willing to put in some time to write well, and I would bet that it never kept him from free-soloing at a high standard, all this is not say some liberties cannot be taken with language, of course they can, its part of how language evolves, but some things are just errors that could be easily corrected, finally, it is also amusing that climbers, who, on the whole, take infinite pains to get things exactly right, in every detail, about a climbing sequence, would take so casual a view of a relatively simple task like posting a route or comment on MP.com. David Foster Wallace and James Joyce might approve the above sentence, although they may cringe at its brevity.

mountainhick · · Black Hawk, CO · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 120
Jake Jones wrote:I meant Fargo. I learned how to speak and write in Fargo. Sheesh. How did I miss that? That changes the whole meaning of my sentence. No need to fight. You look like a gristly old guy, and I am but a lanky, cowardly grammar nazi (this was covered earlier in the thread on page 1. My cowardice, I mean). You win.
Just having fun Jake. Nothing serious.

BTW, (lazy abbr. acronym) Forego is a valid alternative spelling of forgo.
Rob D · · Queens, NY · Joined May 2011 · Points: 30
Richard M. Wright wrote:Look, someone posted a forum concerning our climbing "pet peeves" which had many entries related to MP.com and not climbing per se, and the glaring gramatical errors that crop up on MP.com is a minor, but not too serious an annoyance, hence this posting, however, I am a little surprised by the willingness of some respondents to simply blow off poor use of English, we've come to this juncture where Education, yes the big "E", and Educators are blamed for our falling standards, we've come to a juncture where 18 of 19 industrialized nations out-perform us in the sciences, math, and, yes, language skills, yet we are quite content to ignore simple habits, such as review and editing, that would in some measure improve our habits with respect language, now I don't think we need to get anal about it, but before hitting the "Submit" button take a moment to review the content, if you are unsure about spelling, look up the word, it will not take long, and it is worth remembering that what you send off to MP.com is automatically placed in the public realm, subject to public consumption, and subject to public scrutiny, furthermore, you will not loose any macho points or letters off your on-sight level if you do take a moment to both reflect on and review what you are about to submit, consider John Long with as many stud points as he has but still willing to put in some time to write well, and I would bet that it never kept him from free-soloing at a high standard, all this is not say some liberties cannot be taken with language, of course they can, its part of how language evolves, but some things are just errors that could be easily corrected. David Foster Wallace and James Joyce might approve the above sentence, although they may cringe at the brevity.
Cormac McCarthy would have erased all of those commas though.

I agree with you completely, but you have to understand how much harder it is for some people. To say that "You're an idiot if you can't do you/your/you're correctly" is such a bizarrely simple way to boil down different backgrounds. If you weren't ever taught that in primary school, it means that as an adult you have to constantly think about which one is correct or look it up. I'm not saying it isn't worth your time to look it up, I'm saying that for many of us, we don't even have to think about it and just get it correct without having to look it up.
Would you call someone an idiot that struggles at math or has trouble reading a map or doesn't know basic US history stuff or would you chalk it up to different backgrounds? I mean, many other countries consider us all idiots for only knowing one language, yet I only was provided two years of two different languages so I know almost zero other languages. Does that mean I'm less smart, or less educated?
Rob D · · Queens, NY · Joined May 2011 · Points: 30
Jake Jones wrote: I just don't think it's that difficult to spell shit (and other words) correctly. I think proper use of punctuation is inherently more difficult to master because it's more involved, but it's still not rocket science.
But see that's the problem right there. You don't think it's that difficult to spell words correctly. The fact is you cannot possibly put yourself in the shoes of someone who was never taught correct spelling and struggles with it, because you don't think it's that difficult. To you, punctuation and grammar aren't rock science but for many other people they make exactly zero sense and are done simply out of habit, not out of an understanding of why they should be done a certain way. In other words, when some of us get it right it's only because we know it HAS to be that way, but we don't know WHY it has to be that way, which leads to errors when the sentence isn't part a-b-c, but is instead parts b-a-c.

Good example - I misspelled punctuation three times before I had to right click on it and get my computer to fix it for me. Now I try my best to fix those mistakes, but if you are even less educated than me, than I can only imagine how many red squiggly underlines you have in a paragraphs and it just becomes not worth it, whereas for people with stronger educational backgrounds it's a non-issue.
Rob D · · Queens, NY · Joined May 2011 · Points: 30
Jake Jones wrote: Fair enough Rob. You make a valid and orchestrated point. Do you think that these same people know what others' perceptions of them are when they present subpar written communication skills? If not, can that ignorance also be written off as being undereducated? Where is the line? At what point can we hold people accountable instead of placing the blame on some inadequacy in "the system"? Honest question.
I think that you can chalk it up to ignorance, frustration, and probably just not giving a fuck. As you, the reader are being the one annoyed, you have to decide whether it's going to keep bothering you or whether you can read what they're writing, understand it, and find the meaning instead of the means of what they're trying to articulate. Sure some people are just being "lazy", but isn't most discore on the internet pretty lazy?

I do my best on here because I understand there are those that will completely ignore what I say solely because of grammatical/spelling errors, but on many many other places that I spend e-time, I don't bother. Lot's of other boards are more interested in what you have to say than how you say it. I don't think one way is right and the other is wrong, but the sheer idea that because you aren't well educated or well read your point of view is discounted is really disconcerting and downright ignorant.
Rob D · · Queens, NY · Joined May 2011 · Points: 30

I think I'd also like to say that really atrocious grammar and spelling bugs me too, but I am able to relate with people making the mistakes. I would also rather reply to their stupid fucking posts about bolting a crack than call them an idiot because they didn't use "your" the correct way. I think that throwing spelling and grammar mistakes in people's faces makes polite discourse much less appealing to those that struggle and makes people straight up just not want to voice their opinion.

BSheriden · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2013 · Points: 0
Turd Ferguson! wrote: Still pretty butthurt about being made fun of for not being able to spell moron, I see. Maybe you and Elanor could take an ESL class together?
Still havent seen the "Get a brain MORANS" picture have you?
Boissal . · · Small Lake, UT · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 1,541
Rob Davis wrote:I think I'd also like to say that really atrocious grammar and spelling bugs me too, but I am able to relate with people making the mistakes. I would also rather reply to their stupid fucking posts about bolting a crack than call them an idiot because they didn't use "your" the correct way. I think that throwing spelling and grammar mistakes in people's faces makes polite discourse much less appealing to those that struggle and makes people straight up just not want to voice their opinion.
Again, I think the only people on here who completely ignore the content of a post and throw an epic fit because of a its/it's issue are a) few and far between and b) pedantic fucks with absolutely nothing to say.
While I've been guilty of b) on a few occasions, I don't think it's the norm around these parts. Most outbursts come in response to posts which are barely readable, not just poorly spelled. Trying to figure out what Elanor has to say is always a riddle and even though you know it's going to be nonsense you can't help but spending time "reading her stuff", if anything to confirm, once again, that she's batshit insane, dumb as a brick, etc... and you're in fact a lot better at life than she is.

BShareHisDen wrote:Still havent seen the "Get a brain MORANS" picture have you?
Man you've got to be the weakest troll on the proj. With the material you have THIS is what you come up with? Your mom is probably wondering where she went wrong with you.
Will S · · Joshua Tree · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 1,061

The one that really winds me up:

"Rediculous".

Jonny d · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 40

I am disturbed by posts complaining of misspelling, syntax, punctuation, etc. on MP.com which omit proper punctuation for the abbreviation of the term "etcetera."

BSheriden · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2013 · Points: 0
Turd Ferguson! wrote: For someone that claims he has never even heard of EricSchmidt you two seem to have an awful lot in common. Are you going to get all butthurt again and change your name in hopes that I will quit making fun of you? Or is this when you get all mad and once again sniffle "I'm just an internet troll, leave me alone, Turd!" Or are you going to start emailing me again because you take this shit way too seriously? Psyched you are back, Schmidthead/Sheritard, Elanor had her hands full being the only retard continually posting. Nice of you to give her a hand. Just try not to get so butthurt this time around, mkay?
Haha what a response... Sure is easy to get ya worked up :)

Why do you even let an annonymous online troll get you so bothered?
BSheriden · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2013 · Points: 0
Turd Ferguson! wrote: I think Boissal hit the nail on the head.
Yet you still let me to get you SOOOO worked up, its great :)

Whats that say about you when the "weakest troll" gets you to respond to EVERY post I make?
Boissal . · · Small Lake, UT · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 1,541
BSheriden wrote: Yet you still let me to get you SOOOO worked up, its great :) Whats that say about you when the "weakest troll" gets you to respond to EVERY post I make?
Great trolls will get entire threads are responses.
Good/funny trolls will get a response telling them they're funny.
Sad trolls will get on-liner answers about how much dong they gargle for breakfast. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

People come back to this thread because it's lively. They spend a minute contributing to the discussion and sometimes an additional 20 seconds to spell out that you're a sad cunt. Nobody's getting riled up about your comments which makes you a sad unsuccessful troll. You're effectively standing in a corner shouting random words hoping the group of people in the room will notice you and maybe even give you the thumbs up. So far the group has ignored your pleas for attention, once in a while raised an eyebrow, and on a few occasions pointed out that if you had something to say they might be willing to listen but first you'd have to articulate a thought. Obviously you're not getting any closer. Keep hanging on to your cock, nobody's gonna pick it up for you.
BSheriden · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2013 · Points: 0
Boissal wrote: Great trolls will get entire threads are responses. Good/funny trolls will get a response telling them they're funny. Sad trolls will get on-liner answers about how much dong they gargle for breakfast. Not that there's anything wrong with that... People come back to this thread because it's lively. They spend a minute contributing to the discussion and sometimes an additional 20 seconds to spell out that you're a sad cunt. Nobody's getting riled up about your comments which makes you a sad unsuccessful troll. You're effectively standing in a corner shouting random words hoping the group of people in the room will notice you and maybe even give you the thumbs up. So far the group has ignored your pleas for attention, once in a while raised an eyebrow, and on a few occasions pointed out that if you had something to say they might be willing to listen but first you'd have to articulate a thought. Obviously you're not getting any closer. Keep hanging on to your cock, nobody's gonna pick it up for you.
Oh god I got halfway through that response and stopped reading.

Fact is Turd is getting worked up because he takes the time to follow me around and respond to every post I make. Kinda sad huh?
Ed Wright · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2006 · Points: 285

Yes, it's disturbing because it reflects on the poor state of the American educational system and on poor parenting.

Turd Ferguson! · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 0
This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.
mountainhick · · Black Hawk, CO · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 120

And another thread dragged down to the level of Turds and BS!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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