Using a Locking Carabiner on the first Draw

I'm just curious how many of you use a locking carabiner on your first clip of a sport route. If you use one, could you give a little information on why? How common is it that the rope unclips itself from the first draw?

I've never heard of/seen people do this. The first draw doesn't do any good after the second or third clip where the fall would result in a ground fall without the last draw but who knows.

Yeah, it's an attempt to avoid a ground fall. After the second bolt you most likely (depending on bolt spacing) have some redundancy in the system in the event that one of the draws is unclipped in a fall.

I don't *think* there is anything special about the first bolt which would make it more likely that the rope become unclipped, but if it does, you are hitting the deck.

dont backclip

face the direction of the spine the direction youll travel

if you really want to be paranoid, put two opposed draws in the bolt

no need for lockers

Just on the first draw?

How about on every single draw you clip on a sport climb?

(Yes, I know someone that I believe still does that despite pleas that he...just...stop...doing that.)

Don't start doing this. Just get solid on your climbing and stop falling.

I have put a locker on the first piece of pro a few multi-pitch routes, where I didn't know where I was going, how I was getting there, or when my next piece of pro was. Rope unclipping in these cases meant Factor 2 onto the anchor, and almost certain death for me AND my partner.

The rope unclipping is only an issue if you're climbing in random directions, flicking the rope around, and then falling. No reason to be doing any of that on a single pitch sport route.

Thanks everyone. I haven't actually been doing this myself, but some of the people I climb with insist on it. I think I'll just continue doing what I'm doing.

I've done it on trad, when I place two pieces right off the belay or at a runout and make it self-equalizing with a locker. If you are worried about it on a sport route, there are safer sports out there. I think to do it routinely is just paranoia. Ropes don't come un-clipped unless you are doing something wrong.

Ryan Nevius wrote:Thanks everyone. I haven't actually been doing this myself, but some of the people I climb with insist on it. I think I'll just continue doing what I'm doing.

People start doing things like this out of superstition, not because they have any evidence that it will actually do anything for them. Try to resist doing that and stick to the things you actually need to worry about like not getting off route and suddenly pitching head first into a ledge without a helmet.

I'll do it from time to time if it's a really high first bolt, that then protects the crux moves, Or if I know it's going to be my last piece for a looong while. Probably just superstitious... but then again a piece of mind in climbing goes a long way.

Monty wrote: a piece of mind

Freudian slip?

Also depends on the climb as Dean discovered for us all here. Poor guy, musta hurt like hell.

But on this particular climb, which involves a lot of smearing and stemming with gear very close by, things can happen.

On the succesive attempt, Dean put this one to bed, using locking biners on the gear.

Bad-ass move, bad-ass climb, bad-ass guy.

FWIW

I only use lockers on both sides of my draw, on every clip. Sure, it takes a little longer to unscrew them from my harness (don't want them to fall off) and then lock both biners, but it's totally worth it for the extra peace of mind it brings.

On what I'm sure is a completely unrelated note, I've been stuck at 5.3 for about 3 years now. Anyone have any idea why I can't progress?

I have used a locker on the first bolt when it served different purposes. One, it was our belay; starting off over a void with no gear. Two, I felt compelled cause I had little notion of where I would go or how I would clip. Finally, I wanted a really secure first clip.

TomCaldwell wrote:Ropes don't come un-clipped unless you are doing something wrong.

I guess falling is wrong.. I've witnessed an unclip caused by gate flutter at least once.

Not arguing for the locking biner here, I don't do it myself, but ropes CAN come unclipped even if you do nothing perceivably 'wrong'.

Stich wrote:Just get solid on your climbing and stop falling.

The OP explicitly stated that he was talking about Sport Climbing.

Like most things in climbing, it depends.
I've used a locker/locker shoulder-length quickdraw towards the top of a sport route that took a sharp left and that was my last bolt before the anchors. Reduced my rope drag and I knew I wouldn't swing too far (due to unclipping) if I fell during the traverse.
First bolt on a sport route? If it was somewhat high and cruxy, but with a good clipping stance - couldn't hurt.
Everytime - nah.

Stich wrote: People start doing things like this out of superstition, not because they have any evidence that it will actually do anything for them. Try to resist doing that

/\ Yep and forums like this are incredibly efficient at spreading useless/inaccurate information.

JHCaM, just go climbing already.

i've personally witnessed a person fall on gear and the rope unclip, twice in a row. i was at a belay, literally 5 feet above the guy. in both cases i saw that he had clipped correctly etc. pretty scary.

i also witnessed a pretty serious crater when a biner jammed sideways in a bolt hanger and broke. there are also several other accident reports that i have seen where the rope unclipped during a fall.

the probability of it occurring is fairly small, but could be further reduced by using a locker. i wouldn't harass a person for doing so.

Stich wrote:Just on the first draw? How about on every single draw you clip on a sport climb? (Yes, I know someone that I believe still does that despite pleas that he...just...stop...doing that.)

Every draw? That sounds exhausting...

it's probably not really THAT exhausting on 5.9 routes.