Devils Lake Toprope Clusterf*** PART 3

Cool thanks,,  Whos got some anchor pics

A racoon would be more likely. A badger would be cool.

grug gwrote:

You guys are right: you can manage your local choss pile any way you want. 

chris treggewrote:

Local here.  Love the no bolts ethic at the lake.  Makes it an inconvenient commitment to climb for the day, which I appreciate.  Plenty of sport areas for those who want/need bolts - and I count myself among this crowd, sometimes.  

I call it keeping the riff raff away, a worthy philosophy IMO.  

You DL folks should definitely go climb in Big Cottonwood canyon outside of Salt Lake City sometime,  it's a great mix of sport and trad with hundreds of routes right by the road.  Destination worthy if you appreciate Quartzsite, even better you have a granite canyon just a mile away.

M Mwrote:

I call it keeping the riff raff away, a worthy philosophy IMO.  

You DL folks should definitely go climb in Big Cottonwood canyon outside of Salt Lake City sometime,  it's a great mix of sport and trad with hundreds of routes right by the road.  Destination worthy if you appreciate Quartzsite, even better you have a granite canyon just a mile away.

I thought it was the USFS $80 per day for a picnic table?

grug gwrote:

You guys are right: you can manage your local choss pile any way you want. 

We all know you’d walk away with your tail between your legs if you tried climbing at DL. 

Anthony Lwrote:

We all know you’d walk away with your tail between your legs if you tried climbing at DL. 

Which kinda was my point, Grug knows quartzite with and without bolts living in SLC

Garrett Hopkinswrote:

I'm generally pro-maintainence of fixed hardware where it's truly necessary. Like fixed pitons that are truly crucial for protection

It's difficult to find community consensus on what is "truly necessary" or "truly crucial."

A few years ago, there seemed to be some anti-piton sentiment. For example, when the piton on Thoroughfare went missing, a blue ballnut could be used instead to protect the opening moves. It worked, but the placement was a little blind, and a blue ballnut is not the most confidence-inspiring piece. During the '23 Craggin, I floated the idea of replacing the piton. The suggestion was met with mostly friendly but clear disapproval, so I dropped it. I eventually led Thoroughfare using the blue ballnut, which may or may not have enhanced my experience.

Now the piton is back, and I'm honestly a little surprised there hasn't been pushback (or maybe there has?). Perhaps the anti-piton sentiment has softened somewhat.

I'm not advocating for pulling the piton on Thoroughfare. At the same time, one could reasonably argue that it's unnecessary given modern gear and the fact that the opening moves are 5.8. The Good the Bad has a similar "missing piton" storyline, although I'm not sure whether that pin was ever replaced.

Rather than trying to draw an arbitrary line around what fixed gear is "truly necessary," a cleaner ethic might be to simply maintain any historical fixed gear that was left behind by the old guard. That approach is at least consistent, preserves the character of the routes, and avoids endlessly debating where the line should be drawn. 

It’s super cool that a place like Devils Lake exists in this day and age. Cherish and protect it!

Michael Wolfewrote:

It's difficult to find community consensus on what is "truly necessary" or "truly crucial."

A few years ago, there seemed to be some anti-piton sentiment. For example, when the piton on Thoroughfare went missing, a blue ballnut could be used instead to protect the opening moves. It worked, but the placement was a little blind, and a blue ballnut is not the most confidence-inspiring piece. During the '23 Craggin, I floated the idea of replacing the piton. The suggestion was met with mostly friendly but clear disapproval, so I dropped it. I eventually led Thoroughfare using the blue ballnut, which may or may not have enhanced my experience.

Now the piton is back, and I'm honestly a little surprised there hasn't been pushback (or maybe there has?). Perhaps the anti-piton sentiment has softened somewhat.

I'm not advocating for pulling the piton on Thoroughfare. At the same time, one could reasonably argue that it's unnecessary given modern gear and the fact that the opening moves are 5.8. The Good the Bad has a similar "missing piton" storyline, although I'm not sure whether that pin was ever replaced.

Rather than trying to draw an arbitrary line around what fixed gear is "truly necessary," a cleaner ethic might be to simply maintain any historical fixed gear that was left behind by the old guard. That approach is at least consistent, preserves the character of the routes, and avoids endlessly debating where the line should be drawn. 

You've got a much more eloquent way of wording it. I remember that discussion about replacing pitons. I think it came up after a few beers ;) 

The pin on TGTBJ is back as well 

I agree with maintanence of keeping routes in approximately the same character that the FA was done it. That provides the opportunity for folks to climb them in the way they were done.

 Tfare's character probably hasn't changed much with the replacement of the pin. I did it without it and have done it several times since its been back. It sure feels nice to clip a bomber soft steel pin instead of blindly placing a blue ballnut 

Hopefully folks agree with keeping things as they were, but maintaining them 

Clusterfuck anchor so we can keep this rolling. nuts in loose blocks clipped to a quad 

Anthony Lwrote:

We all know you’d walk away with your tail between your legs if you tried climbing at DL. 

I'm sure DL would be humbling: quartzite is very fun. But the anchor situation limits how much climbing you can do in a day. Not to mention the safety issues of being surrounded by "cluster fuck anchors". 

DL is critical to the community as is.  I love its modern ethic. I just got back from the Elbesandstein.   You wanna bitch about lack of bolts and sus anchors, that place is Nirvana!  Those heathens have stuck to their ways for 150 years —and they’re better climbers for it. Crazier than fuck, but definitely hardcore. 

It's crazy how many of these pics show the utilization of pretty bomber looking trees incorporated into otherwise shit show gear anchors. Are one tree anchors frowned upon out there?

Boreal Strutwrote:

It's crazy how many of these pics show the utilization of pretty bomber looking trees incorporated into otherwise shit show gear anchors. Are one tree anchors frowned upon out there?

I speculate that the gear is used as directionals not as the primary anchor. 

^^^ that makes sense, if only they weren't so terrible hahaha! I've never been to Devils Lake, I just love this thread! Those are some wild directionals

Boreal Strutwrote:

^^^ that makes sense, I've never been to Devils Lake, I just love this thread! Those are some wild directionals

I like this thread too. It reminds me of some of my tactics learning to climb in western PA only on a bigger scale. I need to get out to DL at some point. Good stuff!

If the wiggly block is tied off AND has a cam behind it, that means it’s redundant right? This was all they were toproping on.

also yes, DL is amazing. I think everyone who considers themselves a trad climber should visit. And only toprope. It’s an extreme sport here ;) 

Garrett Hopkinswrote:

If the wiggly block is tied off AND has a cam behind it, that means it’s redundant right? This was all they were toproping on.

also yes, DL is amazing. I think everyone who considers themselves a trad climber should visit. And only toprope. It’s an extreme sport here ;) 

Solid A2 tr anchor

Boreal Strutwrote:

It's crazy how many of these pics show the utilization of pretty bomber looking trees incorporated into otherwise shit show gear anchors. Are one tree anchors frowned upon out there?

The standard monolithic anchor hasn't quite caught on yet.

 I was criticized once this week for building a TR on a tree that is probably 50 inches diameter at its base and again for hanging a temporary rap anchor on a tree that's about 36 inches across. Both times the folks said that I should consider adding another point of attachment. 

Not only is the climbing old school, the people are too

Best climbing in the Midwest hands down and I didn't get to set any TRs while there which I regret now. Will go back and try harder with one inch tubular webbing.

Garrett Hopkinswrote:

The standard monolithic anchor hasn't quite caught on yet.

 I was criticized once this week for building a TR on a tree that is probably 50 inches diameter at its base and again for hanging a temporary rap anchor on a tree that's about 36 inches across. Both times the folks said that I should consider adding another point of attachment. 

Not only is the climbing old school, the people are too

I can remember two TR accidents where people were using single-point anchors at the East Rampart.  It's not the size of the tree, it's the sharp edges below the tree.

If I had just led a route and was belaying from above, then I'd consider a single tree adequate, myself.  And for rappeling as well, I routinely used stout trees.  But people get comfortable with their own standard set up - thinking is often hard work.