New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #40

phylp phylpwrote:

Happy New Year!

There are a number of folks here who will enjoy the photo of my husband's new T-shirt.

First climbing day of 2026! 

Loving that shirt!

Need to go listen to some Talking Heads now!

And I'm a mix on the sacrilegious counting! 

I do keep count and I count indoor and outside climbing as an overall total and in separate columns but not hiking and mountaineering!

That's an interesting example in a discussion of the risk of falling in the older age group!

Wasn't Bachar mid-50's when he took his last fall?

Point taken. When I think about John Bachar I think about what how he lived during the time he was alive. It is very interesting, and possibly relevant to the discussion, that I hadn't even considered that he had died doing what he was known for. 

Alan Rubinwrote:

I think that it is important for each of us to make our own honest assessments of how we are doing as we age,  then made adjustments accordingly--the key words being 'honest assessments' and 'reasonable adjustments'. For instance, as I said earlier, I'm now using hiking poles most of the time I am on trail or making an approach, I am not leading much, avoiding certain routes, tying in most of the time near an edge when setting or cleaning a top anchor, triple checking tie-ins and rap set-ups. I admit that sometimes I feel more than a bit 'odd' or even 'guilty' doing such things, but feel that, at 80, they are all appropriate. Each of us will have to make such adjustments at our own pace.

Perhaps I'll be right there with your thinking in 6 years. I was once talking to young man who after finding out that I had started climbing in 1970 and my current age said "So, you did it! with the idea that he hoped to be still at it at my age. So Alan, you did it!

I was lucky enough to tie in with John boy just a few days before he passed.

One must listen to their body. Having an entire limb quit on you is very scary.

I wish he would have done what he promised to do- “quit soloing” ….. 

But we all know that’s like quitting nicotine or heroin cold turkey.

@Lori…. Tomatoes. You should probably inquire about what tomato varieties do best in your harsh environment. Look up  Tomatomania they are very active in So-California.
So if you’re starting now I assume you are starting from seeds and keeping them indoors.

Good luck 

later all 

Of late, the issue of Flock cameras have come to my mind- if you aren’t familiar, these are Automated License Plate Recognition cameras (ALPR’s), which are located effing *everywhere* these days. Here’s a good resource to show where the registered cameras are located across the country (& in your community):

https://deflock.me/

These damn things are operated by a private company that licenses out their services to law enforcement departments across the country. While there is certainly a reasonable use for these cameras (amber alerts, stolen vehicles, crimes in progress), the data this company (Flock Cameras) is gathering isn’t solely limited to law enforcement- they are retaining it and selling it to data brokers, to go along with all the other data you are providing via your cell, computer, apps, social media, etc, and paint a much clearer picture of who you are, where you live, what things you buy, where you travel, and on and on.

I’m not at all a conspiratorial-minded person, so when I first encountered it, I was pretty skeptical- but the more I dig into it (partly with a friend who is a LE cyber crime specialist), the more disturbing it has become- especially as I drive around and see these cameras that are posted on the above website. Would be very interested to hear other people’s thoughts, and what (if anything) they’ve done about it.

apogeewrote:

Of late, the issue of Flock cameras have come to my mind- if you aren’t familiar, these are Automated License Plate Recognition cameras (ALPR’s), which are located effing *everywhere* these days. Here’s a good resource to show where the registered cameras are located across the country (& in your community):

https://deflock.me/

These damn things are operated by a private company that licenses out their services to law enforcement departments across the country. While there is certainly a reasonable use for these cameras (amber alerts, stolen vehicles, crimes in progress), the data this company (Flock Cameras) is gathering isn’t solely limited to law enforcement- they are retaining it and selling it to data brokers, to go along with all the other data you are providing via your cell, computer, apps, social media, etc, and paint a much clearer picture of who you are, where you live, what things you buy, where you travel, and on and on.

I’m not at all a conspiratorial-minded person, so when I first encountered it, I was pretty skeptical- but the more I dig into it (partly with a friend who is a LE cyber crime specialist), the more disturbing it has become. Would be very interested to hear other people’s thoughts, and what (if anything) they’ve done about it.

IMO conspiracy is more right than wrong here. Mass surveillance, and the surveillance economy is real. Compute resources are as inexpensive as they have ever been, and there is more data collected that you happen to be in than has ever existed - and is growing.

Data sharing without a warrant (in the US) is real.

As a corollary, as a merchant using credit card services, for years you have been able to buy reports about what customers purchased in other stores before and after they made a purchase in your establishment.

Tldr; yes, a motivated actor can learn more about you, your habits, movements, and choices very inexpensively at a scale most cannot imagine. Your concern is well founded.

I've reverted to cash for as many purchases as I can manage - and try to consider every new electronic transaction I make and its implication. - not to hide per se, but to try and manage who can monetize me.

I wrap my phone in tin foil and look over my shoulder....  Seriously if you own a cell phone  big brother can find you whenever they  want. apparently turning it off won't keep the hellfire missels at bay... 

Alan Rubinwrote:

Not all of us live I in an area where that is possible---or, at least, reasonable, Brad.

Brad's post about heresy made me laugh and I think it's great that he can have easy access to the stuff that makes him happiest.  When I retired 11 years ago and we made the decision to move out of the Bay Area, we did a lot of exploration of different places to decide where we wanted to move.  We ultimately chose Upland because it has such a good balance of the things that were important to us.  My entire extended family of 7 brothers and sisters and 10 nieces and nephews live plane flights away, so it's so important to us to be near major airports so we can easily get to them and they can easily get to us.  We love the ocean and we love being able to go to the beach, which we do dozens of times a year.  We love museums and we go once or twice a month, and then treat ourselves to a great meal out wherever we happen to be. We do a lot of hiking and walking together - there is so much nearby.  There is local climbing 1.5-2 hrs away  - not close enough to climb every day even if I wanted to, but close enough so I can do day trips. I climb locally and do road trips when the urge to climb strikes me, but the times with climbing buddies is as important as the actual climbing. 

While I haven't bothered 'counting days' in quite a few years now, 

I end up counting them because I keep a spreadsheet as a diary/log.  The main reason I do this is not to keep count so much as to look back at the end of the year and be reminded of all the great days I had with friends.  Otherwise I'd probably forget!  I was just reminded that I got to spend a day climbing with you, Al! So my total count of fifth class days for 2025 was 64, which was just right for me.

A nice morning tour. 

yukonjackwrote:

IMO conspiracy is more right than wrong here. Mass surveillance, and the surveillance economy is real. Compute resources are as inexpensive as they have ever been, and there is more data collected that you happen to be in than has ever existed - and is growing.

Data sharing without a warrant (in the US) is real.

As a corollary, as a merchant using credit card services, for years you have been able to buy reports about what customers purchased in other stores before and after they made a purchase in your establishment.

Tldr; yes, a motivated actor can learn more about you, your habits, movements, and choices very inexpensively at a scale most cannot imagine. Your concern is well founded.

I've reverted to cash for as many purchases as I can manage - and try to consider every new electronic transaction I make and its implication. - not to hide per se, but to try and manage who can monetize me.

I live in a small town of under 7,000 humans, Fort Bragg  CA, yet there are 7 flucking Flock cameras here. And this in California, the liberal state with a governor that, no matter what you think of him, resists Trump’s heavy-handedness. They certainly are everywhere.

Daniel Shivelywrote:

A nice morning tour. 

Dan! You got your Christmas wish. Looks like the Eastern Sierra is covered. BEAUTIFUL 

Wow, I never counted my climbing days, but I do write all my climbing workouts down on my paper calendar.  So I went back and did the tally - 160 days last year!  A lot of that was indoors.

Bill Lundeenwrote:

Dan! You got your Christmas wish. Looks like the Eastern Sierra is covered. BEAUTIFUL 

Hi Bill, yes two nice storms with not too much wind and relatively stable conditions. When it snows it really lifts the vibe on the eastside. Buttermilk and lower elevations  are still good to go for climbing too. Cheers!

Bill Lundeenwrote:

I live in a small town of under 7,000 humans, Fort Bragg  CA, yet there are 7 flucking Flock cameras here. And this in California, the liberal state with a governor that, no matter what you think of him, resists Trump’s heavy-handedness. They certainly are everywhere.

In some places it’s a holiday tradition to decorate surveillance cameras with burning tires. Maybe at a certain point the water will feel too hot and we will realize its time to jump out of the pot. 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

I wrap my phone in tin foil and look over my shoulder....  Seriously if you own a cell phone  big brother can find you whenever they  want. apparently turning it off won't keep the hellfire missels at bay... 

You got to take the battery out...  jeez, I thought you'd know that... (looked for the hellfire missile emoji, but couldn't find it...)

ed

hope you're good...

Anyway, what’s the climbing like in Greenland? 

Carl Schneiderwrote:

Anyway, what’s the climbing like in Greenland? 

Ask me in 6 months!

(Oh boy! Crazy world!)

Carl Schneiderwrote:

Anyway, what’s the climbing like in Greenland? 

Not exactly what you are familiar with in SA--alpine and big wall---boat and sledge approaches. But, many of us are thinking about heading your way---even with the snakes, it is much safer down there these days!!!!

Buck Rogerswrote:

Ask me in 6 months!

(Oh boy! Crazy world!)

My Dad was stationed in Greenland twice during his 20 years in the US military. He didn't have fond memories of the experience. That was in the 1950's and while it's probably not as unpleasant now due to improved infrastructure you're still in the Arctic.  Leaving aside the legality of it all any possible gain for the US would be vastly outweighed by the damage it would cause. But hey it's a good distraction from the Epstein files.

Last run back to the car. Sometimes paying for your stash of runs is worth the cost.