Alone, developing, dropped gri gri from anchor, what to do?

I agree with you and it's definitely a pervasive problem that people aren't spending time learning even the more basic self rescue techniques.

The availability and strong social encouragement to use SAR services is at the core of this.

Like goobers who get nighted in October by ignorantly starting up a long route too late in the morning. Oh, we have to pluck them off.

I don't mean to sound callous. There are legit SAR circumstances. "Rescuing" some idiots stuck two pitches from the top of a route, in clear weather, right next to a major city, is not one of them. When people learn through suffering the lessons become indelible. Let them suffer. They'll be more inclined to learn self-rescue or to avoid putting themselves in such situations.

I'm glad that I learned to climb in the 'dark ages', when we learned 'the basics' , because those basics were pretty much all that were available. Then, over time, as new techniques and equipment became available, we could learn how to integrate them into that already established foundation.

I still think that it would be worthwhile for all new climbers to learn how to tie-in directly with the rope, the 'hip belay', and the body ( dulfersitz) (and the Munter and biner-brake ) rappel--all 'just in case'. I know that this won't happen, but I think it would be very beneficial.

One of my core fears when exploring new climbs by myself is DO NOT DROP THE ROPE....  rapping/ belaying is super easy with a munter but there are a few things to watch out for. You want your break strand to be on the opposite side of the biner than the gate. Using  your auto block the same way as you would with an ATC gives you perfect control. 

T Taylorwrote:

I think people simply have blind spots, like with everything in life. I know plenty of people who have climbed thousands of pitches and don’t know what a wedge bolt is. Hopefully our blind spots don’t get us into any accidents!

That was my takeaway as well, this is a blind spot for me I need to address. I'm sure the people flaming me here have their own blind spots when it comes to knowing CPR or wilderness first aid, how to change a flat tire, how to handle a family member in crisis, how to start a fire with no matches, how to find dates (or do math!) without the internet, and on and on.  It's one thing to read about these skills and quickly forget them, it's another to dedicate the time to practice them so you can implement them in the field and under stress. My takeaway is to poll my partners and see who knows how to descend without a gri gri or ATC, then get together and figure out a couple methods in person. 

bryanswrote:

That was my takeaway as well, this is a blind spot for me I need to address. I'm sure the people flaming me here have their own blind spots when it comes to knowing CPR or wilderness first aid, how to change a flat tire, how to handle a family member in crisis, how to start a fire with no matches, how to find dates (or do math!) without the internet, and on and on.  It's one thing to read about these skills and quickly forget them, it's another to dedicate the time to practice them so you can implement them in the field and under stress. My takeaway is to poll my partners and see who knows how to descend without a gri gri or ATC, then get together and figure out a couple methods in person. 

I don't mean to flame you, Bryans. Kudos for making this thread and for doing the work to put new stuff up. 

Here's a handy gear mod to prevent Gri dropping 

https://gearnotes.substack.com/p/the-grigri-tether-gear-modification

Of course you can descend on a single rope with an ATC, otherwise it would be impossible to belay a climber on a single rope ! use an autoblock/prusik/machard of your choice to help. Add a 2nd carabiner to increase the friction if needed. a Munter hitch would be the last option for me due to the rope twisting, I need to learn the super-munter instead.

Munter rope twisting is kind of overstated.  I have belayed all day with munter, rapped, lowered climber who gave up etc and never had a messed up rope to the point of not being able to get down safely. had plenty of rope salads with every rappeling device or system I have ever used. it happens. especially with the 6mm tag. 

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

The availability and strong social encouragement to use SAR services is at the core of this.

This isn't a callous observation, it is a simple reality. The increase in SAR response is intertwined with public expectation and aversion to risk, and SAR resources responding to that expectation. SAR resources expand to address this expectation, and the more expensive resources (i.e. helo/hoisting resources) have economic/political imperatives to justify their use, so they get used whenever possible, and the public's perception is that such responses are easily accessible...so they use them. It's a circular relationship, that can only partly be affected by individuals taking more personal responsibility for their adventures- at the same time, SAR resources need to be more judicious in the decision to implement them. Neither of which seems particularly, realistically likely to happen.

apogeewrote:

This isn't a callous observation, it is a simple reality. The increase in SAR response is intertwined with public expectation and aversion to risk, and SAR resources responding to that expectation. SAR resources expand to address this expectation, and the more expensive resources (i.e. helo/hoisting resources) have economic/political imperatives to justify their use, so they get used whenever possible, and the public's perception is that such responses are easily accessible...so they use them. It's a circular relationship, that can only partly be affected by individuals taking more personal responsibility for their adventures- at the same time, SAR resources need to be more judicious in the decision to implement them. Neither of which seems particularly, realistically likely to happen.

Totally agree with you here. I recognize this is a fine line, but it does often seem like SAR responds very quickly to situations that do not merit such a quick response - for example, a stuck rope. It feels like folks (at Red Rock in particular) are trigger happy when it comes to calling for rescue for a stuck rope. It always makes me wonder if the party involved knows how to lead off the other end of the rope, how to daisy solo and daisy downclimb, or some combo of techniques to solve the situation without using up resources. That's only scratching the surface, of course. Knowing how to ascend a rope, use alternate belay/rappel methods if a device gets dropped, and other fundamental self rescue techniques is a scary absent skill in so many people who don't even realize how quickly things can go wrong if you don't have this basic knowledge and have actually practiced it.

Andy Kirkpatrick's book: 'Down' taught me a lot. It's comprehensive (from my limited knowledge) and clear.

Anthony Awrote:

Andy Kirkpatrick's book: 'Down' taught me a lot. It's comprehensive (from my limited knowledge) and clear.

Seconded. Read it when I started multipitch climbing, and it's an invaluable tome of self-rescue information. 

But seriously, not to beat a dead horse, but every climber should know how to use a Munter for belay and rappel. 

J W wrote:

I wish I could say this hasn’t happened to me, but it has (several times). I get so focused on the development kit I occasionally forget the climbing kit. I wouldn’t classify it as an emergency, per se, but certainly unplanned.

Munter works great on either single or double strands. And when you’re tired and not thinking clearly, the telltale Munter shift is a comforting visual verification that all is well.

As someone new to development, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one that has forgotten basic kit when going out for development days.  So far I one day forgot my harness and had to build a webbing harness which was heinously uncomfortable but allowed me to not waste my 1.5hr drive + 20min approach; another day I forgot my Pinch + Ascender, so had to rely on my ATC and a couple slings rigged as autoblocks for descending and ascending. 

For the OP's question: carabiner break came first to mind, followed by munter, followed by body-rappel, followed by some sort of rigged device using the ascender. You have a lot of kit to work with. 

Alan. I have had several days in the modern age where I did not have all the gear and tied in directly to the rope. I will say that lowering is exceptionally painful! I leap frogged pinnacle Buttress with a single half rope, approach shoes, no harness, a very light rack and no belay device in 2016. We had just got back from the Tetons and Northern Rockies and I was on a go light bender. I had intended to bring an ultra light ski mo harness but forgot to pack it. naturally my belay device was on the harness. I suspect I forgot the rock shoes and chalk bag on purpose but absolutely had intended to bring a harness..  It was a great day though some of those pitches are pretty exposed and it felt a bit nekid without the harness and only a single half rope..  I can't fathom how you guys did big walls without harnesses and with crappy skinny ropes. . 

I didn't do big walls in the pre-harness days ( and only one since!!!) but others surely did---though most rigged some sort of Swiss-seat or other improvised leg-loop system to go with a swami belt---but look at what they did in Europe pre-WW2 (and immediately after), even pre-WW1, with much less ( and far less reliable) gear---talk about hard men ( and a few women)!!! Though initially we did tie-in directly with the rope ( definitely did hurt to lower) and do  dulfersitz rappels ---talk about hurting ( including in certain 'sensitive' places) even with some padding, we quickly transitioned to swami belts, and I would use a sling twisted into a figure-8 clipped into the swami as leg loops for rappelling, frequently with a biner brake system. The ropes weren't "thin" though---the opposite. My first rope was a 7/16" Plymouth Goldline laid rope (120')---quite a 'beefy' rope--much thicker and bulkier than any ropes in use today and a total pain when wet, even worse---cable--when frozen---ah, the good old days!!!!

Again, I surely have no desire to go back to those days, but do believe that every climber should be familiar with those techniques as a last-ditch fallback in emergencies.

Cool you climbed the Pinnacle in such a style though--hopefully made it easier for you to identify with the first ascentionists.

Reading Glen Denny's book valley Walls lot's of references to using 1/4 inch ropes for fixing and prusicing with the pig on your back. Sounds horrifying.

Loic Prstwrote:

Of course you can descend on a single rope with an ATC, otherwise it would be impossible to belay a climber on a single rope ! use an autoblock/prusik/machard of your choice to help. Add a 2nd carabiner to increase the friction if needed. a Munter hitch would be the last option for me due to the rope twisting, I need to learn the super-munter instead.

You don’t want the super Munter, you want this:

https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/the-no-twist-munter-hitch-rappel

Another option, rarely considered: stop developing.

apogeewrote:

Another option, rarely considered: stop developing.

nah, bryan's routes are solid contributions to the local scene. come check em out.

despite what the internet has conditioned you to think, some people are open to learning and getting better at what they're doing, instead of being canceled for asking a question

J Pwrote:

nah, bryan's routes are solid contributions to the local scene. come check em out.

despite what the internet has conditioned you to think, some people are open to learning and getting better at what they're doing, instead of being canceled for asking a question

He's in the over 50 crew that has hijacked this thread (and so many others) to laud themselves and tell all their stories. Which I truly love to hear! And as of yesterday I'm in the 50 plus club myself! 

Apogee's comments are usually pretty even-keeled and not negative and judgmental like this one. Apogee, I hope climbing and developing gives you all the joy it has given and will give me, and I hope you are still doing those things and not just snarking at the current crop of climbers creating tomorrow's routes. Sincerely. I have a new 10d/11a I got to TR for the first time on Saturday, and I'll be practicing some alternate methods of descending ropes because I don't want to "stop developing" until my body gives out, I lose the passion, and/or I can't find new obscure rock to explore.