Alone, developing, dropped gri gri from anchor, what to do?

This didn't actually happen to me. But the scenario went through my head as I was at an anchor, and whigged me out a bit. The other day I was alone, jugging a fixed line with a gri and ascender, to an anchor on a project at a crag with no routes (yet). At the anchor, I went in direct to switch my gri gri over to another fixed line on another anchor 10 feet away (I had this second line clipped to me at this point) so I could traverse over and descend that second rope and set some clove hitches on bolts as I descended.

As I was holding the gri gri very carefully as I took it off one rope and put it on another, I suddenly thought "if I drop the gri gri right now, how do I get down?" I had 5 carabiners accessible: 2 lockers on the anchor, one for the gri gri, one for the ascender, one for a hammer. The ropes were only 20-30 feet longer than the route, so even if I had an ATC - or used 6 carabiners to create an ATC effect - I could not get down with the ropes doubled as with an ATC. So in this situation, if I drop the gri gri, am I just stranded? 

Could I use just 4 carabiners to create a U shape like an ATC and descend the fixed line, hoping there would be enough friction? Could I wrap the rope around my leg a few times to create more friction? If not, the only idea I came up with was to pull up the rope and create knots/loops every 3 to 4 feet and downclimb them, completely unprotected, as close as I could get to the ground  then drop off the rope and hope for the best.(It's a 5.11 or harder start, and I had on boots) 

I am not counting "call for help!" as a solution, so let's assume I also (stupidly, in 2025) left my phone on the ground. Any ideas? Anyone ever strand themselves this way?

Edit to add: Sounds like I need to learn the single line munter rappel method in a controlled environment if I'm going to keep developing solo.

Also adding: I expect to get flamed for not knowing the answer, even as I do a lot of developing solo (just don't usually switch the gri gri between ropes) and this will motivate me to figure out how to rap using a munter 

Munter.

Mark Starrwrote:

Munter.

I knew there had to be something! 

Can you do this with a single strand? (My rope was too short to get down with double strands)

My two second wiki search makes it seem like this is not something you just do on the fly though, as in one does not just onsight the munter while 90 feet up. Correct? 

Anyone here ever use the munter in an emergency situation?

I’ll usually leave an ATC on my harness. Especially when you get the whole job done in a day and you can jug back up, rap down and pull your rope. 

bryanswrote:

The ropes were only 20-30 feet longer than the route, so even if I had an ATC - or used 6 carabiners to create an ATC effect - I could not get down with the ropes doubled as with an ATC. So in this situation, if I drop the gri gri, am I just stranded? 

You can rappel on a single strand using an ATC.

Check out the super munter (need to practice myself), apparently it twists less than the munter. I used a munter to get down Prusik Peak once (partner dropped their atc). The twists on the ropes were rough! But on a single pitch route, less of an issue...

You have lots of options. 

Yes, a Munter works on a single line (this is the normal use).

You have more than enough carabineers to rig a rap with plenty of friction.

Gri Gris and other gadgets are great, but assuming that they are a necessity suggests an over reliance on them 

Randywrote:

Gri Gris and other gadgets are great, but assuming that they are a necessity suggests an over reliance on them 

Dude… you could just body rap… Dulfersitz 

It was all the rage back 100 years ago 

If you have one biner you have enough to rap with.

bryanswrote:

Anyone here ever use the munter in an emergency situation?

Yep. First time I tried the Nose I was bailing due to weather (and just plain inexperienced) and dropped my trusty Stitcht plate (Google it). Used a munter on doubled strands rapping with the pig. Saved my bacon!

bryanswrote:

I knew there had to be something! 

Can you do this with a single strand? (My rope was too short to get down with double strands)

My two second wiki search makes it seem like this is not something you just do on the fly though, as in one does not just onsight the munter while 90 feet up. Correct? 

Anyone here ever use the munter in an emergency situation?

Yup, single strand is fine. I use it for most fixed line I rap where I usually climb since they're stiff from being left out and I don't care about twisting them. It twists the rope a lot so I try to avoid it on my personal rope. Definitely practice with it so you know how it acts, but it's a great hitch to have in your toolbox. It's not rocket science, but yeah, I wouldn't want to be figuring it out on the fly. 

bryanswrote:

My two second wiki search makes it seem like this is not something you just do on the fly though, as in one does not just onsight the munter while 90 feet up. Correct? 

I think the consensus is don't implement any rope access and self rescue skills off the deck based on a 2sec internet searches. There are many reputable books that will teach those skills plus practice before your life depends on them. Or pay a guide to teach you. Highly recommended to learn those before being in a situation that may need them.

I'm not sure whether it's funny or alarming that someone who is developing new routes thought of down-soloing a knotted rope and not a munter. 

In any case, the times that I've rapped a single strand on a munter I wished I had done a super munter instead. 

I found myself in situation with no rappel device for numerous days on a big wall and rapped maybe 5000' over the course of the climb with just 2 lockers and a  prusik.  It works surprisingly well even on a single strand once you get it all dialed in.  

Here is a pretty good link to showing the method I pretty much use.   Alpine Savy  The only thing I really do different is use pear shaped biners and have the small end of the biners facing each other.  This seemed to increase the friction on a single strand.   And if you want to increase the friction even more you can add another biner to the top of the chain just like the two main biners.  Also pretty important to have some sort of backup hitch.

If the wall is overhanging and you're on a dynamic rope, it’s actually pretty straightforward. You just pull up the rope until the end is, like, four or five feet off the ground. Doesn’t really matter. Whatever feels chill. Then you fix the rope again. Tie into the end. Unclip from the anchor. Jump.

If you got the measurement right, you’ll land softly on your feet.

On slab or a static line, you can just run a Munter but its gonna twist the hell out of your rope.

Anyway, people overthink this stuff. Just stay relaxed, commit, and don’t let go of anything important next time.

bryans wrote:

Out of curiosity, when is the last time you body-rapped on an overhanging wall?

To answer your question.

2007…. My friend and I 3rd classed Bear Creek Spire. He assured me the down climb was easy… 

We tagged the top and walked over to the start. Kris just grabbed a few holds and went over the edge, down climbing for a 100 feet or so to where you pick up a ledge system and start more down climbing.
I got freaked out and said “no f way”…. About that time another party had topped out and was setting up to rap. I walked over and asked if I could get down on thier rope. They agreed and asked me what I was going to use for gear. I told them “don’t worry” and rolled into a sitz.
Yes it can be painful but it works OK especially if you have done it before.

Cheers 

bryanswrote:

 I suddenly thought "if I drop the gri gri right now, how do I get down?" I had 5 carabiners accessible: 2 lockers on the anchor, one for the gri gri, one for the ascender, one for a hammer. The ropes were only 20-30 feet longer than the route, so even if I had an ATC - or used 6 carabiners to create an ATC effect - I could not get down with the ropes doubled as with an ATC. So in this situation, if I drop the gri gri, am I just stranded? 

Could I use just 4 carabiners to create a U shape like an ATC and descend the fixed line, hoping there would be enough friction? Could I wrap the rope around my leg a few times to create more friction? If not, the only idea I came up with was to pull up the rope and create knots/loops every 3 to 4 feet and downclimb them, completely unprotected, as close as I could get to the ground  then drop off the rope and hope for the best.(It's a 5.11 or harder start, and I had on boots) 

This post is sadly indicative of many climbers today. They are too dependent on a single gizmo and really have not taken the time to learn the fundamentals. Further, even with an ATC the OP seems incapable of descending. That is even more disconcerting. I guess the positive is that the OP is asking a head of time as I met someone who tried to improvise and decked breaking the leg.

My first choice would be a biner brake (not to be confused with a biner block). Second choice would be a Munter. Third choice would be a Dulfersitz.

Allen Sandersonwrote:

This post is sadly indicative of many climbers today. They are too dependent on a single gizmo and really have not taken the time to learn the fundamentals. Further, even with an ATC the OP seems incapable of descending. That is even more disconcerting. I guess the positive is that the OP is asking a head of time as I met someone who tried to improvise and decked breaking the leg.

My first choice would be a biner brake (not to be confused with a biner block). Second choice would be a Munter. Third choice would be a Dulfersitz.

I did say I expected to get flamed, I've been on MP almost 20 years! I usually post not just for myself, but for other people. I've been climbing 26 years, putting up routes, mainly trad, since 2005. I've probably put up 40 to 70 pitches, I don't keep a list. But aside from once watching my buddy create a 6 carabiner improvised rappel device which I know I can pull off, I never took the time to learn any other ways to descend. 

I'll admit it, despite lots of climbing "experience," I'm over-dependent on the gri gri and the ATC - like so many people reading this thread - and I've been lucky to so far avoid situations that turned desperate because I lost either device. And I appreciate every reply, so thanks.

These other threads have this issue covered in case anyone wants advice:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/119234067/the-triple-locker-improvised-rappel 

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/117840069/rappelling-with-an-atc-on-a-single-rope

Allen Sandersonwrote:

This post is sadly indicative of many climbers today. They are too dependent on a single gizmo and really have not taken the time to learn the fundamentals. Further, even with an ATC the OP seems incapable of descending. That is even more disconcerting. I guess the positive is that the OP is asking a head of time as I met someone who tried to improvise and decked breaking the leg.

My first choice would be a biner brake (not to be confused with a biner block). Second choice would be a Munter. Third choice would be a Dulfersitz.

I agree with you and it's definitely a pervasive problem that people aren't spending time learning even the more basic self rescue techniques. However, I really do respect OP for proactively thinking about this and reaching out for insight. That's arguably how many people initially start down the path of learning self rescue and shows a level of foresight and responsibility. 

I don't mean to be too critical but I'm kinda blown away by this one.

I figured the venn diagram of people who spend time and money developing routes and people who know a bunch of rope trickery was basically a circle.

Sure, you don't have to have any aid climbing or trad climbing experience to rap in and bolt routes. In my experience though, the people who are bolting routes have done all that.

Whether developing or just TRS, if you are going places alone, you need to give yourself options. Carry an atc, learn the munter, learn a biner brake. Figure out how to prussic down a route. Give yourself options.

FWIW, I absolutely would not rap.anything more than a low angle on a dulfersitz. That's not a viable option on vertical or free hanging terrain. Yes people have done it, there's better ways down.

bryanswrote:

I'll admit it, despite lots of climbing "experience," I'm over-dependent on the gri gri and the ATC - like so many people reading this thread - and I've been lucky to so far avoid situations that turned desperate because I lost either device. And I appreciate every reply, so thanks.

reasonable response on mountain project kudos!

I think people simply have blind spots, like with everything in life. I know plenty of people who have climbed thousands of pitches and don’t know what a wedge bolt is. Hopefully our blind spots don’t get us into any accidents!