Hand pump on 0.75

Hi, does anyone have any training recommendations to reduce the hand pump? I have small hands so I get the pump on sizes 0.75 and sometimes thin 1's. I train often at the gym, where they have these sizes. At least 1x per session. And I can't seem to get rid of the hand pump situation. Specifically, it occurs around the meat by the thumb. All other sizes feel good. Because 0.75 is a funny size that results in a very thin hand (or really baggy fingers), my technique involves placing the hand jam in and flexing really hard, which starts the hand pump. I have tried finger stacking, but it is not as secure (but doable). I'd appreciate any tips or recs. 

I find thumbs down on really tight hands to be a nice way to relieve some pump- my thumb meat seems to wedge in more passively that way than thumb up. it's just harder to move on/lockoff thumbs down jams for my aging shoulders. So I generally go back to thumbs up when moving unless it's in a corner when you can shuffle top hand thumb down and bottom hand thumb up.

Are you using gloves in these gym cracks? Nothing pumps me out more than crack gloves, I hate the things.

aside from that, Pete Whittaker illustrates this really well in his book. Make a full L with your hand, insert thumb meat first, then engage the jam. Definitely less pumpy if you rely on thumbs down thumb meat. Also don’t forget to shake out after placing gear and clipping.

definitely ditch the gloves if you are using them. this was a total game changer for me, and i kicked myself for not listening to others earlier.

slimwrote:

definitely ditch the gloves if you are using them. this was a total game changer for me, and i kicked myself for not listening to others earlier.

Why no gloves? Is this crack and hand size specific? Gloves make it a little bit too tight?

Chris Johnsonwrote:

Why no gloves? Is this crack and hand size specific? Gloves make it a little bit too tight?

I'm also curious about how gloves pump you out? Is it due to a lack of blood circulation?

I use BD gloves mostly, but I also have the Grivel ones, and those have really tight rubber finger loops.

The BDs are nice and loose around the fingers. I've never noticed more pump with one or the other.

Do you guys rawdog it or use tape? My hands would bleed without gloves at the gym.

Gym cracks may be another beast, I raw dog pretty much everywhere except Vedauwoo and JT these days. I primarily climb soft sandstone so I don’t have much to worry about. I find in the thin hands positions the wrist strap on the BDs or any gloves can limit blood flow to my hand, I tend to keep it kind of loose. I really only uncovered this after climbing without gloves for a long period of time. Now when I wear the things I am often frustrated at how the gloves impact performance. Anyhow, for gym cracks, I’d probably do a really thin layer of tape unless the edges are really sharp. I don’t have a gym near me so I don’t go to one.

Cory Nwrote:

Got it, thanks for the response, Cory.

Igor Chainedwrote:

Do you guys rawdog it or use tape? My hands would bleed without gloves at the gym.

I've done without for about 12 years now and never looked back. I stopped taping as an experiment for thin hands cracks specifically since I found I was able to saw in tight hands on some things that I previously had to thumb stack. That little bit does make a difference, and even thin hands will feel a bit less thin (and less pumpy) without anything on. The only time I sometimes regret not using gloves is on long stretches of cupped hands but other than that I can't remember ever wishing I had a layer on.

If you are bleeding without gloves then you probably need to try to slow down and place each jam more carefully, set it exactly where you need it before flexing and pulling on it. I see so many people sliding their hands around in the crack, which makes me wonder if gloves can act as sort of a hindrance to learning better technique. Obviously I don't know you or your ability level. I mean this more generally, that a lot of people might be surprised how few areas or sizes they actually need gloves and might even find some sizes easier without.

Going gloveless/tapeless on thin hand size cracks and below was a noticeable improvement for me too. Those mm's make a difference

You guys make a great point, thanks for sharing.

I haven't bled at the gym yet because I'm always gloved lol.

The gloves absolutely allow me to just sink in the crack without having to be precise with my hand placements on hands and big hands.

I'll have to try no gloves for thin hands.

Tight hands are pumpy. Especially thumbs up (I call this a paddle).  In a paddle you can take some strain off the thumb muscles by altering the angle of your hand in the crack so your fingers point more upward.  This allows the pinky side of the hand to get deeper in the crack where the weaker fingers can crimp/sprug against the walls.  The business of tight hands are the primary knuckles of the index and middle fingers.  Those are the widest part of the hand until you get to the thumb, which usually won't fit in a tight hand crack.  They can act as a chock, but are also the best place to get torsional pressure on the walls.

Torsion is a lot of why a thumbs-down tight hand is so good.  It’s like a cam hook.  Thumbs down gives you a lot of skeletal leverage from the bigger muscles of the arm and shoulder.  Add to that the potential for a deep ring lock and the thumbs down jam is just fundamentally stronger and more restive.  

But there is a point where paddles fit better.  In a paddle, the torsion comes mostly from muscular tension in the forearm and hand.  The thumb muscles become very hard to utilize.  So focusing on putting power and position on all four fingers is key.  Pretend there is a crimp on the inside of the crack.  Crimp and twist at the same time.  Get your body to one side if possible.  

And yeah.  Putting things on your hands makes tight hands tighter.  But since we don’t have anything on our fingers, ring locks are still incredibly rattly.  Avoid gloves in tight hands but if you’re in that predicament focus on driving the rubber into the edge of the crack.

Unfortunately, bare hands aren’t for everyone.  My hands are heavily scarred from decades of gobies.  I have never been able to continuously climb without some kind of protection.  Crack gloves are excellent for wider hands and offwidth.  A thin veneer of tape may be worth it in tight hands if you have paper skin like me.  I also find a collar of tape halfway up my middle finger knuckles is very protective, though full knuckle tape is horrible.  

The pump is real.  Place and rest from thumbs down.  Limit your time in one jam.  Moving up is more restive than staying in place.  You can hold on a lot longer than you think.

Even with good technique you will build up some calluses/scars over time, still get the occasional gobie, and probably quite often for someone still learning. If you're a hand model or just like that layer of padding you might want to stick with the jammies, they just come with tradeoffs in thin hands and it's worth playing around with.

i don't even tape at vedauwoo or jtree anymore if i am trying something remotely challenging.  several issues with the gloves. definitely cut off circulation, even if they aren't very tight. this will give you the dreaded thumb pump pretty quick.  if they aren't very tight they tend to swim around a bit, which sucks. the outside of them is kind of slippery, even the ones that are supposed to be grippy feel more slippery than my skin.  for tight hands probably the biggest issue is the bulk. even a slim set of gloves is going to rob you of vital cramming space.  they get in the way when going for deep thumbstacks. they completely suck for fist jams. 

add to that they kind of suck when you are mantling, using your palm to chicken wing, etc. you will also get a lot better at "placing" your jams instead of desperately hucking your meat into the crack. the only time i really wear gloves, that i can think of, is gym cracks.  this is kind of non-intuitive - you would think for all the above reasons i would go bareback in the gym, but i want it to be difficult and i don't want to get gym-crack-gobies while climbing inside. 

Do not raw-dog gym cracks - that will tear up your hands every time.

grug gwrote:

Do not raw-dog gym cracks - that will tear up your hands every time.

The bigger issue is that I think there might be some sort of bacteria in them or something since I always seem to have a slight rash after climbing the finger cracks especially. And I know Movement has never spent a penny cleaning them.

If you look inside the hand crack at the gym in Grand Junction you can see dried blood on the walls

Calebwrote:

Tight hands are pumpy. Especially thumbs up (I call this a paddle).  In a paddle you can take some strain off the thumb muscles by altering the angle of your hand in the crack so your fingers point more upward.  This allows the pinky side of the hand to get deeper in the crack where the weaker fingers can crimp/sprug against the walls.  The business of tight hands are the primary knuckles of the index and middle fingers.  Those are the widest part of the hand until you get to the thumb, which usually won't fit in a tight hand crack.  They can act as a chock, but are also the best place to get torsional pressure on the walls.

Torsion is a lot of why a thumbs-down tight hand is so good.  It’s like a cam hook.  Thumbs down gives you a lot of skeletal leverage from the bigger muscles of the arm and shoulder.  Add to that the potential for a deep ring lock and the thumbs down jam is just fundamentally stronger and more restive.  

But there is a point where paddles fit better.  In a paddle, the torsion comes mostly from muscular tension in the forearm and hand.  The thumb muscles become very hard to utilize.  So focusing on putting power and position on all four fingers is key.  Pretend there is a crimp on the inside of the crack.  Crimp and twist at the same time.  Get your body to one side if possible.  

And yeah.  Putting things on your hands makes tight hands tighter.  But since we don’t have anything on our fingers, ring locks are still incredibly rattly.  Avoid gloves in tight hands but if you’re in that predicament focus on driving the rubber into the edge of the crack.

Unfortunately, bare hands aren’t for everyone.  My hands are heavily scarred from decades of gobies.  I have never been able to continuously climb without some kind of protection.  Crack gloves are excellent for wider hands and offwidth.  A thin veneer of tape may be worth it in tight hands if you have paper skin like me.  I also find a collar of tape halfway up my middle finger knuckles is very protective, though full knuckle tape is horrible.  

The pump is real.  Place and rest from thumbs down.  Limit your time in one jam.  Moving up is more restive than staying in place.  You can hold on a lot longer than you think.

Thanks for this detailed response!! 

Thanks y'alls!! I have been trying jamming without gloves to get my hands used to the cracks. I also generally think the grip is better. I agree that it helps make my hand placements more intentional rather than rushing through the crack. 

I tried thumbs down today, and it felt good, but I still need work on making it feel secure. When I stand up on it, it starts to loosen up, so I gotta work on spacing out my hand placements. 

Karen DVwrote:

Thanks y'alls!! I have been trying jamming without gloves to get my hands used to the cracks. I also generally think the grip is better. I agree that it helps make my hand placements more intentional rather than rushing through the crack. 

I tried thumbs down today, and it felt good, but I still need work on making it feel secure. When I stand up on it, it starts to loosen up, so I gotta work on spacing out my hand placements. 

Part of the reason for this is the angle change in your hand/forearm. Think about it this way, when you do a thumbs down jam you're reaching high above your head for the jam right? If you notice, your forearm is roughly parallel to the crack when you do this and that angle helps keep more of your hand in the crack and allows for better torsion.

Now imagine you step up with your thumbs down jam still in. Your forearm will become less parallel to the crack and will get closer to be perpendicular to the crack. Biomechanically, this makes it harder to torque the jam and get as good purchase. It has a lot to do with the angle of your hand/forearm in relation to the crack.

Karen DVwrote:

I have been trying jamming without gloves to get my hands used to the cracks. 

If you are just an average joe crack climber then I highly recommend using gloves or tape. You won't gain any cool points for going bare skin, and its not magically going to make you a better jammer. You aren't alex honnold. 

The majority of your hands getting used to crack is building up the tissue internal to the hand. Gloves won't stop this process from occurring. So much of becoming an intermediate skilled crack climber is your feet building tolerance.