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Epinephrine Pack Weight
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Preparing to attempt Epinephrine in the next two years and have been doing a lot of research on what to bring for the climb. Stuck inside last week and put together a mockup of the pack & gear for the day and holy moly it is a lot of weight... Would love some feedback where I'm off base or if this is pretty accurate... Plan would be (1) 22L pack and (1) small ascent pack to be packed inside the 22L at the base of the climb. Second would wear or tether the pack for the pitch. By the end of the pitch after cleaning gear, the second would have nearly all the weight on them. Gear (Ordered by weight), combined for 2 climbers: Trad Rack (Optional items included): ~11.5 lbs, Trad Rack (Slimmed Down): ~9.5lbs 4L Water (2L/person): 8.64 lbs 60m single rope: 8.61 lbs Qty(2) Helmet, gloves, chalk bag, climbing shoes: 4.88 lbs Misc Items (Food, minimal FAK, Paper topo, WAG bags, sunglasses, clothes): 3lbs est., haven't weighed this out yet. PURLine 65m: 2.86 lbs Qty (2) Harness & PAS: 2.48 lbs Empty 22L Pack: 1.32 lbs Empty 16L Pack: 1.15 lbs Qty (2), Cell Phones: 0.92 lbs Radios, Pair (TBD): 0.76 lbs Qty (3) Headlamps: 0.33 lbs ------------------------------------------------------- Slim Rack Total: 43.7 lbs Plus optional items: 46.45 lbs Rack Details: C4/Z4 Doubles 0.2-3 (Slimmed by singles 0.2-0.5) C4 Singles 4-5 (Slimmed by skipping #5) 21 Nuts (DMM Wallnuts and offsets, Slimmed by skipping biggest 2 nuts) 12 Alpine Draws 3 Lightweight Draws Qty (2), 180cm runner & Locker Gigajul + Locker (Climber 1) GriGri + Locker + ATC (Climber 2) Nut Tool Bail/Safety Kit (AL QuickLink, Knife, Whistle, (2) Prussiks) 120cm sling (Slimmed by skipping) 2 spare lockers (Slimmed by skipping) Is this a pretty typical pack weight or am I way off base here? I'm compiled the packing list from lots of trip reports, SuperTopo, MountainProject, guide books, etc. Could probably lose half a pound on the rack and maybe another with a skinny rope, but not sure where else. |
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With all that you might as well bring bivy sacks. Treat it just like a crag route, shell on your harness and 1 liter water to share. No pack. No radios. The climbing is not difficult and goes fast. |
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If you’re rapping, skip most of the misc. stuff, half the water, the cell phones. Unfortunately, the best pitch of the whole climb is the one above the rap anchors. If you’re topping out, ditch the PURline. 1 pack is plenty for either option. Rack wise, you can skip the offsets, trim down to 8 alpine draws, no need for double cams in #1-3, I think I did use the 5 but I would be tempted to leave it. No need for sunglasses. |
Calebwrote: This is an excellent place to start. Ddriver's post is valid too, if a bit old school, which I am. There's a whole recent thread on packs, or no packs, on multipitch climbs. Posts are all over the map. When it became evident that Epinephrine was on the OP's mind, I left a specific reply. There is a world of difference between a party that is very skilled and experienced, and a party doing their first big route. And Epi is pretty big. It's also reasonable for a first bigger route. What will help a less experienced party more than exactly what gear they take, is being very well rounded in your CLIMBING skills. That should be your focus. All types of cracks and chimneys, and face climbing. It's a very good route. I went back and looked, the other thread is entitled hiking with a rack. |
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I applaud the extreme attention to detail and weighing things out to the 0.01 lbs but this reads like overkill assuming that 5.9 is not at/beyond your lead limit. 1 pack. Less than half that amount of nuts. Less draws. No pur line. What's the current lead grade for you and your partner? As in, are at least one of you solid 5.9 leaders or is 5.9 a stretch? If you're solid at 5.9, the current packing list is going to feel excessive on game day. |
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Also, if topping out, dial the walk off. Nowadays there’s probably some GPS trick to stay on route. It’s long, usually done in the dark, and not obvious. Many parties end up back-tracking and/or bushwacking. I did. |
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Looking at the OP's tick list it seems as if he should be planning on doing a number of shorter routes at Red Rocks prior to Epinephrine. Familiarize yourself with the style of climbing and work on your climbing speed. Epinephrine is quite the jump from mostly single-pitch experience. I did it almost 30 years ago but even then found the walk off to be easy to follow. I would suspect it to be well tracked now. |
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Why bring a Grigri, when the gigajul can be used by the belayer in assisted mode and you can use any tube device in guide mode to bring up the follower? Ditch half the water, ditch the PAS, ditch the tag line, ditch half the nuts, ditch some of the small cams, drop your deuces in the morning and ditch the WAG bags, ditch the radios, ditch the 3rd headlamp, ditch the sunglasses, ditch one of the packs. I'd probably bring the #5 if you think you'll move faster with the closer protection it provides. Get some chimney training in and be solid at the grade and style. Put more emphasis on things that will help you move faster, so you won't need all that stuff that will slow you down. If you get there and find it all clogged up with people out of their league, then turn around and go climb something else that day. Being stuck behind a carnival really sucks the joy out of the whole experience anyway. Also, I did my very first climbs at Whipps Ledges, thanks Army National Guard! |
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Thanks all for the replies. Followed my suspicions. Let me add a bit of context to my goals. I do not think I’m ready or qualified today to tick Epi, however it’s a fun long term goal and has gotten me in substantially better shape. My partner and I plan to go to Red Rocks this coming year to climb some less committing routes and get a feel for if we can make an Epi attempt in 2027. I have about 2 years of trad lead experience at the 5.9 level at RRG, but live in Michigan without access to quality outdoor climbing or any multipitch. I have been conditioning hard for the past year and I’m in substantially better shape than when I ticked any of my trad routes. I still tend to sew things up a bit much and will need to work that out, plus general efficiency before I have a hope on a larger climb. Right now I’m targeting going after Frogland as a litmus test to see how we can manage on a more committing climb. My partner climbs about half to a full grade higher than me, has local access to RRG, and has been a guided follow on several longer multipitch climbs at Red Rocks and Devils Tower. So I’m in the “doing your homework” phase of a 2+ year project. Also hanging inside with a newborn so have some spare time on my hands to think about all this. Thanks for the feedback. |
Cosmic Hotdogwrote: Sorry that’s the engineer in me poking through :) |
Mike Cwrote: Dude I think this is awesome that you're setting a big goal and planning well in advance to ensure it's as smooth as possible, no joke. I always find that part of the fun of a lofty long term goal is all the planning and refining and progress that goes into it leading up to go time. Just the fact that you're taking a calculated approach and trying to be smart and efficient and realistic tells me that you guys will get there and you'll be able to tick Epi. |
ddriverwrote: I wish I could agree with this sentiment, but it's neither realistic nor wise given the popularity of the route and the bottlenecking nature of the chimney pitches. OP should be prepared for a long day. With that said, the third time I climbed Epi, we lucked out and had the whole route to ourselves. But I wouldn't count on it now, regardless of season or start time. |
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We did epi and started at 630 and was third in line at the base, a party of fresh multipitch climbers started at 330 and there was a blockade at the chimney pitches by 730. Due to whatever reason, we were not allowed to pass, we ran out of water and snacks by 330 but did not descend until 830. I really wish we packed more water and I haven’t really done as multipitching since that trip. I would say the experience and needs of every party will vary and a lot of it will be out of your control. Pack whatever you think you’ll be comfortable with after a few trips to red rocks and I am sure it will work out fine. |
F r i t zwrote: I think he was being facetious.
When my friends did it a few years ago, they were able to watch from their unplanned summit bivi their return flight home take off from McLaren. |
Mike Cwrote: Climb Black Widow Hollow as prep. Finish it by doing the upper pitches of Cat in the Hat mountainproject.com/route/1… |
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Don’t need nuts. Did it with 1 15L pack- 3L water, bars, wind layers, approach shoes. We didn’t want to deal tagging the bag so threw a skinny tag line in there and hauled bag through chimneys while belaying follower. Go fast, be dialed. If unsure about chimneys, go ahead of time and climb through at least the second chimney then rap off (go late/ afternoon to rehearse though, don’t screw up anyone gunning for it). Good luck! Set time goals on the actual send go to keep urself dialed |
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Also- for the descent, spot out next cairn from each subsequent cairns. If you’ve gone 20 steps from a cairn without seeing the next, go back and look again. |
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ME here This post reminds me of one of my favorite engineering/engineer adages:
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Mike Cwrote: Lots of good advice here. But perhaps if you don't do a lot of multi-pitch climbing, the biggest issue IMO is not going to be your stamina or whether or not you can reliably climb at X grade, but how fast you move on the route as a team. This is probably the most basic thing people underestimate. Frogland is a great route, but it's only a grade III, 700 feet, has a much shorter approach than Epinephrine and a pretty easy, shorter descent. If you want some ideas for longish routes that are less committing i.e that give you bail options in case you move way too slow here are a couple of ideas: (cooler weather) For example: Beulah's Book, combined with Sundog - That's over 1000 feet but you can rap the second route (2 ropes) at any point if you are too slow, and rap the Gully to get down. Something like - Saddle Up (or other things on that wall) combined with Armatron. That's 1300 feet but you don't have to go to the top of Armatron and down the gully, you can rap the route (70M) (on the shady side) Something like Purblind Pillar that goes to the top of Angel Food. That goes up the longest Point of the Wall for about 900 feet of climbing but has a pretty simple, "short" approach and mellow gully descent. No bail options but it will give you a sense of timing. You can combine climbs on a wall that has a quick and easy descent back to the base. For example, you could do three routes on Lotta Balls Wall like Black Magic/Lotta Balls/Trihardral for over 1200 feet of climbing. while watching your minutes per pitch. BTW, way way too many nuts on your proposed rack. I typically take only 5 or 6 in RR for most routes. |
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Assorted thoughts: 1) If you're not obsessed with an on-sight, sneak up on the route. Show up at 3 in the afternoon and see how you and your kit do. Rappel at your leisure from however far up you get. That will tell you more about how you and your kit will work en route than I will. And help with the route finding when you finally go for it at 4 am by headlamp. 2) All my climbing partners will roll their eyes when they see a post where I'm giving anyone advice about reducing kit; as an understatement, I'm not a minimist. As others have noted in the thread, ditch the 2nd pack. Forgo the grigri. Do you need two cell phones? You can save a dozen carabiners by having a single carabiner on each sling over your shoulder. 3) I climb faster when I have plenty of gear and am well hydrated with plenty of glucose coursing in my veins. If this isn't you, take less gear, snack, water... 4) Pick your day. If you can be pretty confident that the temps will be what the forecast says and the wind won't eat your soul, you can keep the clothes down to a dull roar. Pick a time of year you won't need winter clothing. |
Mike Cwrote: What in the everlasting god are you talking about? Bro! Well go do it together. We’ll bring a rope, a rack, and a cliff bar shoved in our pocket. A pack? No chance! It will just get in the way. If it’s hot, we may take a 16 or 20oz bottle each duct taped to a sling on our harness. Otherwise, drink up before we go. We’ll be down by lunch. |
