New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #39

dragonswrote:

Daniel,

Health insurance is a huge concern for me. My family was constantly on edge because my father, the breadwinner, had a heart defect. He was born before antibiotics were discovered. As a small child, he managed to get a disease which damaged his heart, leading to a lifetime of health issues. This was a pre-existing condition that could have caused him to lose his health insurance had he moved from the job that he found years later. In my rough understanding, as a child, we were constantly worried about him losing his job because of this pre-existing condition problem, with the fear that he might actually die if he lost his health insurance. This impacted me in a big way and probably led to other problems in my family, aside from general childhood anxiety.

So for me, the ACA was a huge win because it got rid of pre-existing conditions. I'm 100% with you in the sense that the ACA is insufficient and a minimal, weak change from the way things were. However, I still think that the health insurance we get now is far better than it used to be. (I'm in favor of single-payer healthcare.)

You said "if I need major care, I’m able to secure insurance if necessary". Please explain? It sounds like you're saying you don't have insurance, and that you'll get insurance after the fact, should you need it. I don't know how that would work. E.g. suppose you have a catastrophic fall while climbing and are in the hospital for months. With no insurance, what is your plan?

Personally, I have a high-deductible health insurance policy (something like $8K deductible). Currently, I make a low income, so most of my health insurance premiums are covered due to the ACA. I've never hit the deductible, but I have had to pay thousands of dollars for actual healthcare (not premiums, but medical bills) each year. It's to the point where I rarely visit a doctor unless I decide it's too big a risk not to. That's how I deal with the current "healthcare" situation in the US. However, I have no illusions that my comparatively healthy lifestyle can prevent me from suffering a really bad health problem that might bankrupt or kill me.

This is a perfectly valid question. I understand those that want to just check out and not try to push for change, since it seems pointless. I also feel super grateful to those who keep fighting for change. But you do you. I'm not trying to convince you to behave in any different way, just explain why some people might.

Hi Dragons, like you, when I was a child, I remember healthcare/insurance causing constant stress for my parents. My mother had some long term illnesses that took years to resolve. She was mis diagnosed for years and prescribed drugs that the side effects were worse than what they were trying to treat. It ended up that she had an early case of Lyme disease. (If you want to go down a rabbit hole, look into the possible origin of Lyme disease) Due to not being diagnosed properly, the Lyme disease became very difficult to treat and she suffered for the remainder of her life.

Also, like you, even with insurance, I have not met deductibles, and in addition to premiums, I paid out of pocket for care. I don’t qualify for subsidies in Ca, and get this, it’s not because I make too much money, it’s because I don’t make enough. I’m self employed and I took off most of a year to work on personal projects and when I filed my taxes, my earnings made me qualify for medical. Since I chose to take the time off, I didn’t feel entitled to medical, so I didn’t accept the coverage. When I checked during the open enrollment period I was quoted around $1500 per month for coverage with a high deductible. Maybe next year my situation will change, but I’m not sure. Fortunately, I’m acquainted with several MD’s and nurses so I’m able to consult with them if necessary. I also have friends who have travelled to Mexico for procedures, costs in Mexico are usually 1/3 less and often the care is more cutting edge than what’s available in the US. Stem cell and platelet therapy in Mexico has shown great results for many sports injuries. So, living where I do, i have this option . It’s also worth noting that most hospitals usually charge pennies on the dollar for people without insurance who are willing to pay cash. 

As far as no insurance and the possibility of a major accident, yeah it’s a roll of the dice, but it also helps me to moderate my risk level. I approach every situation knowing that I can’t mess up. It really just boils down to struggling to pay for a pretty worthless insurance or investing the money saved in a useful way. 

Back to the original intent of my post that stirred up the hornets nest. I didn’t intend to come across exactly how I did. Several days ago, Norm Larson, made a point about this theoretically being a thread about our shared love for climbing, and that avoiding politics could be an enjoyable break from the endless turmoil. I took what he said to heart and tried to share photos that I thought some here would appreciate. Unfortunately, for me at least, the conversation returned to the usual “it’s their fault, we’re in dire straits, “I’m having trouble not calling out fascists” routine. I’ve read every post in this thread and many before it and have not seen anyone post anything that would rise to the level of openly supporting “fascism“ or “left wing extremism”, well maybe 1 or 2, but unfortunately Joy was banned. It seemed to me that some contributors are really struggling emotionally with the current situation, so I made a post showing some examples of the not so great leadership of our country over the years, and implied that for me at least, I perceived the overall effect on my life to be relatively minimal and maybe taking things so seriously wasn’t the best approach. I quickly realized, from reading and considering the many replies, that many thought my words were intended to minimize their personal struggles. This was not my intention and I apologize to anyone who was offended. I was mainly trying to explain how things are often not as bad as they seem. I will try to do better to be more effective with my writing style in the future.  I would appreciate if other contributors would try to provide clear and specific answers when replying. Dragons, your thoughtful response is a great example of what I’m asking for. Many replies didn’t  really address the issues that I initially wrote about. 

I appreciate everyone in here and value this opportunity to interact with a group that has a diverse set of viewpoints. If America is to move in a positive direction, open and reasonable discourse is the best way forward. Hope that you and everyone has a great weekend. 

Daniel, I think "politics" is the wrong word, as though we were talking about some theoretical concepts you debate and vote on every 4 years.  Many of us carry the weight of what we are experiencing these days all around us, heavily.  With despair.  It's not "politics". I'm personally trying to find a way to live with the changes and the destruction, and so far I have not found it.

When a neighbor or friend is carried away by masked men, I grieve.  When I see a local business raided and it's longstanding owners arrested, I grieve.  

I have personal hope for a diabetes cure, but friends with cancer saw some answers coming for them, too.  That research has been shut down, $2billion in funding cut. 

When I watched my retirement account plummet overnight earlier this year, due to the first of many erratic decisions made by the White House, I spent days pacing in fear.  Will I need to sell my house?  CAN it be sold?  What if there is no money left to live on?  

Every summer when increasing wildfires engulf this state, as Trump eliminates environmental measures and declares that global warming is a hoax... it terrifies me, personally... and deep fear for my kids and grandkids.  This isn't politics it's an attack on me, personally, and my family and I feel utterly helpless.   

I had mercury poisoning and was in a hospital for nearly 3 months, due to eating poisoned fish, and having multiple silver amalgam fillings all at once.  So, when I see all restraint lifted on commerce, on our water systems, it personally enrages me.  My niece is now 21, and she also had mercury poisoning... she is severely brain damaged, wears a helmet and a diaper and will for life.  Mercury poisoning.  This is not politics.  It's personal.

Of the things I cherish most in life, it was a college education, where all ideas were on the table.  To know that UCLA is being fined $1.2 billion for "civil rights violations"... my school... and classes have been removed, studies in history, women's and black studies, economics, health... this to me is a devastation.  

PBS and affiliates, NPR, late night talk shows, all been 'cancelled' in one way or another... and every single news outlet, especially the New York Times being sued to smithereens, I don't know how to look away.  Individual journalists are being personally sued.  They are now afraid to report the news... and they SHOULD be afraid... therefore, I no longer have reliable sources of news.  

I never thought I would see an illiterate man as president, ruling by misspelled Tweets (now "TruthSocial") with some of the most vile, hateful and divisive language.. unless we totally ignore this president (and I TRY), it is impossible not to be embarrassed and frightened.  I am personally frightened when I read the words "radicalized liberal" and 'left wing lunatic'... (that's me)... with threats of jailing and/or silencing anyone who opposes.  My neighbors proudly wave their Trump flags in front of their homes, I would not DARE disclose my voting... I am too afraid.  

This would be the most elementary start of a long list of ways that I am personally done in by 'politics'.  It never leaves me alone.  The hateful vibe just reigns over this country.  I am also watching carefully the effect of the tariffs that were imposed this year on... everyone... don't know if I will have funds to live on.  Businesses (like mine) may or may not be able to schedule and purchase for December.  We are all off balance.  

Mostly... Nick goes to a place called Willoughby.  There is a Twilight Zone episode called Willoughby.  I long for that place these days.  It's not politics.  It's robbery of normalcy, decency and peace of mind.

Very well put, Lori.

Trump insisted all the climate change signs at NPs come down because it's a horrible thing for people to learn about why many areas are closed after record storms keep wrecking parts of the parks that had never been affected before the last few years . Happened here in Acadia this last week.

The trails aren't too crowded these days, everyone is riding around on e-bikes cause , ya know, they are easier to pedal and exercise is tiring...

2 billion in funding cut for medical research, winning all the way right? Europe is now recruiting brains that function.

Lori, it seems like you put a lot of thought into that post. It's extremely well written and thank you.

On the subject of climbing, seven of us went out to a local crag called Potter's Rock today. Among all the high county crags on Sonora Pass, this one in particular has the most "Yosemite Valley" feel. Even down to having the noise of a river from below. Among the seven climbers were more than 250 years of accumulated climbing experience.

Three among us had put up some of the routes at Potter's in the late 1990s (me, David and Philip). Phillip focussed on retro-bolting some of his routes - adding bolts to climbs on which he'd done the FA. He transformed three of his routes there from "heads up, wow!" to "excellent, now-well-protected routes." All of us thought he was doing fantastic work.

Meanwhile David got on two routes that he'd put up almost 30 years ago. And we learned that yes, it is possible to sandbag oneself. His reaction to his own ratings from the late '90s? Let's just use one quote that came from him at a very loud volume: "“How in the hell did I rate that 5.10c!!??” David is now 73 years old ;)

I got some good re-bolting done thanks to ASCA hardware (and I got several laps in too).

A good day.

I didn't take any photos, so I'll post two from some earlier climbing there (to give a feel of its "Yosemite Valley like nature):

Guy Keeseewrote:

Hey Lori… FB tells me today is your Birthday.

Happy Birthday to you- KID

Missed this milestone - Happy Birthday Lori!  Hope it's a year of health and happiness for you.

gawd damn Lori, that was excellent!

Brad Youngwrote:

Lori, it seems like you put a lot of thought into that post. It's extremely well written and thank you.

On the subject of climbing, seven of us went out to a local crag called Potter's Rock today. Among all the high county crags on Sonora Pass, this one in particular has the most "Yosemite Valley" feel. Even down to having the noise of a river from below. Among the seven climbers were more than 250 years of accumulated climbing experience.

Three among us had put up some of the routes at Potter's in the late 1990s (me, David and Philip). Phillip focussed on retro-bolting some of his routes - adding bolts to climbs on which he'd done the FA. He transformed three of his routes there from "heads up, wow!" to "excellent, now-well-protected routes." All of us thought he was doing fantastic work.

Meanwhile David got on two routes that he'd put up almost 30 years ago. And we learned that yes, it is possible to sandbag oneself. His reaction to his own ratings from the late '90s? Let's just use one quote that came from him at a very loud volume: "“How in the hell did I rate that 5.10c!!??” David is now 73 years old ;)

I got some good re-bolting done thanks to ASCA hardware (and I got several laps in too).

A good day.

I didn't take any photos, so I'll post two from some earlier climbing there (to give a feel of its "Yosemite Valley like nature):

Similar story Brad. A number of years ago a couple of us revisited a little visited crag that we had not been to for quite a few years. All we had for information was a rough hand-drawn topo someone had given to us. Once there, we found ourselves struggling much more than we felt we should be on routes of those grades, cursing the 'damn sandbaggers' as we flailed. After I got home I dug through my old climbing journals and discovered that those 'damn sandbaggers' were us!!!!

Great post Lori. Thank you.

Thank you Lori and happy birthday!

Last night was the start of the Vermont climbing Festival. I did not take any pictures. My little sony climbing Camera is broken and held together with Zip tape.  You have to squeeze the bottom of the camera really hard to get the battery to connect which makes it very unreliable and hard to use. It's literally held together with Zip Tape.  It was very cool gathering  about an hour and a half from our place.  There was 2 hr bluegrass Jam that Isa and I attended. I got to lead  7 songs and Isa played mando and sang a song.  Good bunch of Players. then there was a campfire and story hour with lots of Luminaries. Isa was a hit with her story of the Mojave Green scaring the pants off her. we got home late for old people. almost midnight..  Today we did not attend but put up a new climb at a sport area that we like  about an hour and a half south of us.   Lots of work cleaning and trundling. We lucked out and a youngster let us borrow his cordless leaf blower without which I doubt we would have  finished it today. VT ain't California.  You have to work for clean rock. fun little climb through a cool overhang. A Walk In The Park 5.7 sport 50ft

Nick is that at Lasso?  which side. 

Left side. Just right of that Sykes route.  Nice 5.7 through the overlap on jugs.

Finally did the hardest move on my remote boulder project in New Hampshire.   Two small crimps and a bad toehook then a swing and a campus move to this jug.   Killer conditions yesterday, low 60’s, low humidity and a nice breeze definitely helped, not to mention the no alcohol weight loss.

Great work Ward. Hope you are close to linking it!!!!

Nick Goldsmithwrote: VT ain't California.  You have to work for clean rock. 

Nice looking climb Nick.  I live in California and I've been drilling holes in this fine slab.  You'd have to go out of your way to find a loose rock or dirt but you do need to walk a ways.

Jim Malonewrote:

Nice looking climb Nick.  I live in California and I've been drilling holes in this fine slab.  You'd have to go out of your way to find a loose rock or dirt but you do need to walk a ways.

That is one gorgeous slab. Are you bolting anything for us older mortals or is it all hard stuff? Beautiful. 

Daniel Shivelywrote:

I appreciate everyone in here and value this opportunity to interact with a group that has a diverse set of viewpoints. If America is to move in a positive direction, open and reasonable discourse is the best way forward. Hope that you and everyone has a great weekend. 

Hey Dan, Thank you for your detailed explanation. Also, I appreciate your honest discussion of how you are (attempting to) deal with your health care and health insurance issues. I do sometimes think about Mexico or other countries for medical treatment. But I have a feeling it's a mixed bag and I don't have the medical expertise to know whether the care I'd be getting is good or not. (I already have that problem in this country, and no good friends in the medical industry, although I have one friend-of-a-friend whose policy is to refuse all treatment whenever possible since everything is f'd up.)

It's actually pretty tough to communicate well even in person. Online it's even more difficult. You brought up some very interesting points for discussion! However, I don't think it makes sense to try to discuss these deep issues in an open forum like this, online. They're the kind of topics that would be interesting to hash out over a long conversation in person. Therefore, I hope I'll get to meet you one day for such discussions. Some time ago, I made a very brief foray into politics here, but that won't happen again - that was clearly a mistake. I still think this thread will die if politics continues to get "discussed" here. It makes me think an old folks' subforum is a good idea. Then we could have a multitude of threads in the subforum, and people who really wanted political topics could have multiple threads devoted to anything that they want to talk about that within the subforum.

dragonswrote:

Hey Dan, Thank you for your detailed explanation. Also, I appreciate your honest discussion of how you are (attempting to) deal with your health care and health insurance issues. I do sometimes think about Mexico or other countries for medical treatment. But I have a feeling it's a mixed bag and I don't have the medical expertise to know whether the care I'd be getting is good or not. (I already have that problem in this country, and no good friends in the medical industry, although I have one friend-of-a-friend whose policy is to refuse all treatment whenever possible since everything is f'd up.)

It's actually pretty tough to communicate well even in person. Online it's even more difficult. You brought up some very interesting points for discussion! However, I don't think it makes sense to try to discuss these deep issues in an open forum like this, online. They're the kind of topics that would be interesting to hash out over a long conversation in person. Therefore, I hope I'll get to meet you one day for such discussions. Some time ago, I made a very brief foray into politics here, but that won't happen again - that was clearly a mistake. I still think this thread will die if politics continues to get "discussed" here. It makes me think an old folks' subforum is a good idea. Then we could have a multitude of threads in the subforum, and people who really wanted political topics could have multiple threads devoted to anything that they want to talk about that within the subforum.

Hi Dragons, you’re welcome and I agree with everything you said in the second paragraph. If you‘re ever around the eastern sierra, hit me up. 

The beginning of autumn brings me closer to my favorite season and getting high on the mighty Winuba.

James Harvey wrote:

Sierra Wave

Tuttle Creek

It lasted about 36hrs…

Beautiful. Did you visit the Ashram?

Good morning from Bridgeport….

Lui…. “we never let the Engineers speak to customers…”

So Brad when is the guide book coming out?
I hope it is better than some of the others that couver the West Side Sierra. I currently possess a PDF with over 2000 climbs located on the Kern Plateau. The author has made me give a blood oath that I will not share “on line” information. I can, and do, print out a page or two and share with my young friends- AKA The Sherpas.

And Brad, do you recognize the prominent peak in the photo? Jan and I are camping on Robinson Creek. 

I enjoyed reading everybody’s comments on our political situation. The song remains the same.

And to Nick… the scrubbrush and garden blower are required tools for “developing” out west.

Later all.