New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #39

Okay, climbing business!

I have a rotator cuff injury. Yay. 

Guess that makes me a real climber now, lol!

Meet with PT shortly 

H.

Edit to add: Hey! Happy Birthday, to our NEVER to be old, old lady! Keep up the cantankerous fight to the bitter end!

Lori Milaswrote:

I took my first barefoot hike yesterday— A full 2 miles and caused more anxiety than hiking around rattlesnakes.

Two hours of barefoot hiking is impressive, Lori! I only hike barefoot if I get stuck up on a cliff with just my rock shoes, and have to walk back, maybe 30-40 minutes. It takes a lot longer barefoot. Is there a specific reason you decided to take up barefoot hiking?

At about 20:48 she talks about differences in build and strength between women and men... the angle of hip to knee ratio, the angle at which women land when doing sports creating more ACL injuries.  Women are 'quad dominant'... naturally defaulting to our quads, preferentially using quads over hamstrings and glutes.

I dislike these types of generalizations. We're all unique individuals. There's a lot of variability between each individual, and making assumptions about your training because of one factor (being male or female) may work okay on average, but it will not lead to optimizing for each individual. I think you're way better off listening to your body, observing how it responds to training, and changing it up accordingly. E.g. I know plenty of guys whose quads are minimally developed. My quads are not strong, and it has been difficult to train them, esp the vastus medialis (VMO). I would really dislike it if I went to a PT and they started advising me in a way that makes sense to them because I'm a woman, without regard for the specifics of how my body works.

Happy Birthday Helen Lori!

Rotator cuff, ugh. The injury that keeps on giving!  Welcome to the club. Flys are your friend. 

I stepped on a burr barefoot, from a chinquapin I think. Damn those spines were impossible to get out! Of course I can’t see or reach the bottom of my foot. And cholla is incredibly persistent.
My uncle used to sing Irish ballads in a lovely brogue. Johnny we hardly knew ya. 

On our morning walks,  I often reflect about changes that occur over this span of my life. I’ve started to realize how, at the macro level, national politics has always been in a constant state of turmoil, with the end of the world seemingly around every corner. I believe that this is a feature, not a bug, and that division rests at the very heart of the quest for power and control. 

At the micro level, I realize that life is beautiful and my personal choices affect my existence immeasurably greater than any politicians influence.  Maybe I’m just a simple lover of mountains, but blocking out the noise while remaining aware, feels more positive than falling into the trap of partisan politics. 

I sincerely hope that everyone has a great and positive day. Get outside!

Packin up now to go fishing with Jan for a week, going up the east side. Bridgeport, walker river forks, up around Sonora Pass. Hopefully get to pet a few Trout.

Hope you got up there, or haven't left yet, and you're not stuck on the 395! Btw, here is a recent photo of the Walker River Canyon and the junction of 395 and Sonora Pass highway (108), to wet (sic) your appetite. 

 

I don't even like walking bare foot in my house.

Ward Smithwrote: Ken Tubbswrote:

Of course you should consult with your doctor before listening to some dude on the internet.

HA! If I had done that I would have quit bouldering 20 years ago.

LOL! Yeah, I should have added blah, blah, blah to my sentence. 

Notice I said consult. Taking their advice is always optional. 😁

It reminds of working with our IP lawyers when designing anti-counterfeit solutions for some of our products. If you asked if you could do XXX the answer was always "no". We quickly learned to just ask the paralegals to do research for us and we (engineering) made the call. (Sorry Al but bashing lawyers is too much fun. I've got nothing but respect for public defenders.)

Ken Tubbswrote:

This methodology is known as the Norwegian method. You can learn more about it on YouTube. You'll find lost of stuff about determining your zone 2 using lactic acid testing but for us non-professionals that above works well enough.

Hey Ken, I find such methodologies impractical because they don't account for the realities of people who participate in hobby sports.
I'd like to use a proven training methodology to increase VO2 Max (unfortunately there are no places locally where I can measure VO2 Max, but that's another issue).
But how do I factor in my climbing days? Here's my WHOOP report from yesterday (BTW I trust my Polar HRM more than my WHOOP, and the WHOOP is generally incorrect by 10 bpm or so, but let's assume this is approximately correct).

So yeah, if I'm doing this for 3.5 hours yesterday (and let's say I do this 3 days per week during climbing season on average), wouldn't it just wipe out the effects of say an additional 20-40 minutes of Zone 2 that I might do for 5 days per week?
I know this "workout" is completely at odds with the training recommended by Inigo San Millan, but I want to climb, you know what I mean? Training takes second place.

Maybe it was Thompson who defended fringe elements in society as a kind of leveling influence. 

(Hunter S.)

Ken Tubbswrote:

It reminds of working with our IP lawyers when designing anti-counterfeit solutions for some of our products. If you asked if you could do XXX the answer was always "no". We quickly learned to just ask the paralegals to do research for us and we (engineering) made the call. (Sorry Al but bashing lawyers is too much fun. I've got nothing but respect for public defenders.)

This is really difficult to do, and what our companies seem to forget is if you remove all the layers of management and IP lawyers, it may be possible to make the products much cheaper to remain competitive despite counterfeits if they’re even worth making.

But all those Ivy graduates would have to get real jobs then.

Sorry, that was an engineer’s rant…   

 

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

Hope you got up there, or haven't left yet, and you're not stuck on the 395! Btw, here is a recent photo of the Walker River Canyon and the junction of 395 and Sonora Pass highway (108), to wet (sic) your appetite. 

 

Leaving in a few hours, Jan is still a worker- probably the oldest programmer ever!
Im excited to explore the creeks around the pass. Last spring I drove back that way after Karting in Sonoma, tons of great looking water.

OLH…. Happy Birthday- another trip around the sun. Enjoy the ride.

Barefoot…. No thanks. I can’t even walk on cold pavement. Lori beware of all the “pricks” in the desert.

So did the Mods toss Joy? If so that’s unfortunate. I personally love to read the ramblings of the “unhinged”. Helps me focus on the center by knowing what’s out on the edges. The Wife showed me a few clips of George Wallace BITD blocking the doors to UA (?). Now that’s some old time racism right there.

Later all 

Ken Tubbswrote:

LOL! Yeah, I should have added blah, blah, blah to my sentence. 

Notice I said consult. Taking their advice is always optional. 😁

It reminds of working with our IP lawyers when designing anti-counterfeit solutions for some of our products. If you asked if you could do XXX the answer was always "no". We quickly learned to just ask the paralegals to do research for us and we (engineering) made the call. (Sorry Al but bashing lawyers is too much fun. I've got nothing but respect for public defenders.)

That's no problem, Ken--lawyers, at least the ones I know, bash ourselves ( hard) all the time---to survive, at least in my part of the profession, one needs a very thick skin and an affinity for black humor!!!

Happy birthday, Helen. Hope you heal up ( to the extent one--at least one who is active--ever truly 'heals' from a rotator cuff injury--I never have).

Dragons, I agree with you 100%--it is all so dependent on our individual physiologies ( and psychologies!!!).

Daniel, while I do share your feelings regarding the 'rehabilitative' value of being active in the outdoors, the reality is that 'politics' does have major impacts on all our lives ( like it or not). And anyone who feels that the current 2 dominant political parties in the US are 'the same' with similar impacts on our lives ( especially currently) is just deluding themselves. I have plenty of frustrations about how our political system ( and all such systems that I am aware of) works, but those frustrations just make me want to work harder to improve things ( despite knowing my individual actions--standing alone, won't have much obvious impact) rather than just 'giving up'. With all its faults, our US democratic system has still been a net positive for most of us, and it is currently much more imperiled than it has been for over a hundred years. I, for one, can't and won't be silent or disengaged.

dragonswrote:

Hey Ken, I find such methodologies impractical because they don't account for the realities of people who participate in hobby sports.
I'd like to use a proven training methodology to increase VO2 Max (unfortunately there are no places locally where I can measure VO2 Max, but that's another issue).
But how do I factor in my climbing days? Here's my WHOOP report from yesterday (BTW I trust my Polar HRM more than my WHOOP, and the WHOOP is generally incorrect by 10 bpm or so, but let's assume this is approximately correct).

So yeah, if I'm doing this for 3.5 hours yesterday (and let's say I do this 3 days per week during climbing season on average), wouldn't it just wipe out the effects of say an additional 20-40 minutes of Zone 2 that I might do for 5 days per week?
I know this "workout" is completely at odds with the training recommended by Inigo San Millan, but I want to climb, you know what I mean? Training takes second place.

Yeah, it's a dilemma. I solve it by not training for climbing   My elbows are so dodgy from 35 years of typing at a keyboard that I've just given up training for climbing. I do a bit of hangboarding to maintain contact strength. The rest is just calisthenics (pushups, squats, planks, flys, etc). I do some crack training at our local outdoor gym aka The Columns but I tend do only do a couple of hours in the morning when it's cool and then head out for a road or mountain bike ride in the afternoon when I don't mind the heat. This keeps me leading in the 5.8 range for trad and up to 10a for sport and I'm happy with that. A bit of easy soloing keeps my lead head tuned. 

As for VO2 max improvement my understanding is that this primarily comes from the interval training but again I'm just some dude on the internet. I have no idea if the Garmin VO2 max estimate is at all accurate but I do know that a steady diet of intervals causes it to go up and I really feel the improvement mountain biking where to get to the good trails I've got some 17% grades to grind up.

I will say that I've been impressed with the Garmin watch HRM accuracy. When I've checked it against the chest start based monitor on my elliptical and rowing machines it's always within a beat or two. It amazes me they can be that accurate measuring on my hairy wrist.

Hey Lori… FB tells me today is your Birthday.

Happy Birthday to you- KID

Alan Rubinwrote:

That's no problem, Ken--lawyers, at least the ones I know, bash ourselves ( hard) all the time---to survive, at least in my part of the profession, one needs a very thick skin and an affinity for black humor!!!

Happy birthday, Helen. Hope you heal up ( to the extent one--at least one who is active--ever truly 'heals' from a rotator cuff injury--I never have).

Dragons, I agree with you 100%--it is all so dependent on our individual physiologies ( and psychologies!!!).

Daniel, while I do share your feelings regarding the 'rehabilitative' value of being active in the outdoors, the reality is that 'politics' does have major impacts on all our lives ( like it or not). And anyone who feels that the current 2 dominant political parties in the US are 'the same' with similar impacts on our lives ( especially currently) is just deluding themselves. I have plenty of frustrations about how our political system ( and all such systems that I am aware of) works, but those frustrations just make me want to work harder to improve things ( despite knowing my individual actions--standing alone, won't have much obvious impact) rather than just 'giving up'. With all its faults, our US democratic system has still been a net positive for most of us, and it is currently much more imperiled than it has been for over a hundred years. I, for one, can't and won't be silent or disengaged.

Respectfully, please provide an example of how the political situation has directly impacted my life in the last 50 years. You could consider that it’s a reality to limit participation and live as far removed from conflict and turmoil as possible. For me, this has greatly limited the impacts of partisan politics. 

As far as being “deluded” about the two party system, my honest evaluation is that both parties are led by hypocrites and liars that fear their loss of wealth, power, and control more than moral and productive leadership. It’s easy to find real life examples of this if willing to watch entire proceedings and interviews as opposed to dwelling within a comfortable echo chamber. The amount of special interest/lobbying money(bribes), book deals, post government positions in corporations that rely solely on government contracts, insider trading(how is it possible for politicians to amass great wealth when making a fairly modest salary) and other forms of graft, enjoyed by both parties is staggering and obvious corruption. 

I agree that being born in America, was, outside of life itself, the most fortunate gift I could imagine. 

Everyday, in this thread, I read posts by contributors that seem emotionally and maybe even physically stressed by politics. I simply share specific examples of some of my coping mechanisms in hopes that some may find value and relief. I never make claims that “my way” is the best for everyone. Maybe if you would provide specific examples of how you “work harder” to improve things others could learn from your example.

Thank you for your thought provoking reply to my post. Have a great day. Sincerely, DS

My elbows are so dodgy from 35 years of typing at a keyboard that I've just given up training for climbing.

Mr. Tubbs, I'm curious, dodgy in what way? If you don't mind my asking, that is.

philip bone wrote:

Can we slag engineers now?

Hahaha! In the face is fine, we get it all the time from layers of managers and lawyers.

“Engineers are like mushrooms”

(For those whom don’t know, it means we’re kept in the dark and fed horse shite)  

And Happy Birthday, Lori!

Daniel Shivelywrote:

Respectfully, please provide an example of how the political situation has directly impacted my life in the last 50 years. You could consider that it’s a reality to limit participation and live as far removed from conflict and turmoil as possible. For me, this has greatly limited the impacts of partisan politics. 

As far as being “deluded” about the two party system, my honest evaluation is that both parties are led by hypocrites and liars that fear their loss of wealth, power, and control more than moral and productive leadership. It’s easy to find real life examples of this if willing to watch entire proceedings and interviews as opposed to dwelling within a comfortable echo chamber. The amount of special interest/lobbying money(bribes), book deals, post government positions in corporations that rely solely on government contracts, insider trading(how is it possible for politicians to amass great wealth when making a fairly modest salary) and other forms of graft, enjoyed by both parties is staggering and obvious corruption. 

I agree that being born in America, was, outside of life itself, the most fortunate gift I could imagine. 

Everyday, in this thread, I read posts by contributors that seem emotionally and maybe even physically stressed by politics. I simply share specific examples of some of my coping mechanisms in hopes that some may find value and relief. I never make claims that “my way” is the best for everyone. Maybe if you would provide specific examples of how you “work harder” to improve things others could learn from your example.

Thank you for your thought provoking reply to my post. Have a great day. Sincerely, DS

Okay, firstly, it's not my bday, but Lori's.

So Daniel, you drink coffee??

Drive a vehicle?

Pay taxes?

And, I'm 68, so 50 years is my voting life. Just barely. 18 year olds couldn't vote, yet went to Vietnam.

My minimal.participation, is to remember that right to vote.....that I only got back then, and classmates only a little older, did not have. 

Which means I vote. Every election, every time.

One of those times included a VERY tight local race, that went straight to recounts.

My candidate win by something like 11 votes. Including mine.

At the national level, the day to day stuff?

Still matters. The public lands stuff, my federal level guys sent out yes/no polls to voters, ahead of votes coming up.

Mostly though, I confess to gratitude that I live in a relatively young state, and a cantankerous one at that. One that never really matters to anyone at all. Idaho has never exactly been the conservative bastion people think it is. More like, since before statehood, even?

We just don't care for ANYONE telling us what to do, lol! Any governance is merely tolerated at best, ignored as much as possible, and most laws are considered advisory, at best.

 

 Edit to add, my longstanding rule is, if you show up in person, on my doorstep, you'll have my vote. I only had to vote for one nutcake, so far.

And, no matter what it is for, I will sign any ballot initiative petition you poke my direction. Doesn't guarantee you have my vote, just that I support you getting something on the ballot.

Oh, and I got my registration changed to Independent recently. 

Daniel Shivelywrote:

Respectfully, please provide an example of how the political situation has directly impacted my life in the last 50 years. You could consider that it’s a reality to limit participation and live as far removed from conflict and turmoil as possible. For me, this has greatly limited the impacts of partisan politics. 

Dan, As a woman, access to reproductive care (including birth control, and being able to get an abortion if I wanted to) is something that has directly impacted my life in the last 50 years. I also just generally care about how other people are treated, it matters to me.

It sounds like you've had no such cares. In which case, I think you're very lucky not to have had your life impacted by politics.