New and experienced climbers over 50 #38

Emil Briggswrote:

Believe me I understand the attraction of "ignorance is bliss", but if too many people in a democracy subscribe to it that democracy will fail. 

Sure, in theory. But how much knowledge of current events/politics is really necessary for a functional democracy? Do you believe more political exposure is inherently “better” than alternative uses of one’s time, say climbing, or reading scientific journals?

I mean, AI can probably give a pretty good “year in review” summary of key events, along with stances of political candidates, come election time. What value do I gain from reading the Atlantic, National Review, etc., listening to political podcasts, or watching local/world news? Has democracy benefitted from our 24- hour new cycle, or the wealth of media exploring every niche of the political spectrum?

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Jay you need a lot of power to charge 36v batteries. I tried plugging my Makita 18v charger into my 800w inverter that simply plugged into a car power source. Blew the 30 amp fuse in the invertor instantly.  I ended up hard wiring a 1500w inverter to my auxiliary battery bank. I have 200w solar panels and 200 amp hrs of battery. I wouldn't want any less than 200 amp hrs system to run a 1500w inverter. And it needs to be hard wired to the battery bank with 4g cable. 

Nick, what are the specs on the battery charger? I have two chargers for my Ryobi 40V, 6Ah lawn equipment batteries. One is 80W and the other is 295W. The next time my batteries need charging I'll use my watt meter to measure what the fast charger draws. Not to discount your experience but something is not adding up.

Probably best to move this to a new thread where more knowledgeable folks can help Jay.

A watt meter is pretty handy for this stuff.

Perhaps it has been the gift of climbing, but my concept of aging has so radically changed. I’ve written about it here because it’s a constant shock and awe for me— in no way does life feel “less than” but really more, more, MORE.  

One surprise has been that it is not a given that we step back, recede, give up.  Some people do. But it’s not a given.  In fact, quite the opposite, we have decades of acquired knowledge and experience now in full bloom.

For the first time in my life I have time. I enjoy this new freedom to read, explore, think about things outside of what is urgently going on in my family or business. I enjoy having that half hour a day, give or take, to read a little more deeply on politics. I have REALLY enjoyed this newfangled podcast system, which is almost like attending college classes in every conceivable subject. But I probably most enjoy this gift of roaming which, if you have a desk job, can never happen. I can hunt down new paths or over the next boulder. Or taking all the time you damn well please to grow better tomato.

Today I am exploring the music of Jon Batiste. And I never heard of the Savannah Bananas before but here we are. So it’s really a privileged place to have the time and interest to dig into both sides of a topic – – to be ready to vote or to act.  

I believe this is me on Grain Surgery 10b

I’ve been studying this picture I took of Jarad on Malicious Deception 5.11b.  Oh man… wouldn’t I love to do this!  Just hugging that slab. It’s just baffling.  

M Sprague… here, here!  

M Spraguewrote:

Sticking your head in the sand and saying " I don't do politics" is exactly what so many in Russia do. Look at the results. We obviously don't want to completely flood a climbing/campfire thread with it or go off the rails with incivility, but we do need to practice analyzing and thinking through things clearly and practice critical constructive discussion without melting into an emotional freak-out. We are in crisis and if we don't all work hard at getting back to some civic sanity rather than covering our eyes and ears and indulging in the make believe, things will get a lot worse, with more violence from instable individuals and a sick and incompetent government attacking its own population..

It would be nice if we actually participated more in our governance so we didn't have to discuss it as much in our other spheres of interaction, but very few do. Go to a local town government  meeting and it is almost all old people, some very well meaning and still effective, but quite a few obviously past their prime and no longer sharp enough to be up to the task, Many positions are unfilled due to lack of candidates. What you end up with is a few retirees trying to keep things running with the help of a few trained technocrats, which leaves room for those with strong personal/business agendas and money to run roughshod over communities (often developer types who want the rules relaxed for them so they can develop every square inch) 

Good politics starts small with individuals taking responsibility and being willing to talk and work things through and not be stuck in their own little heads in a fantasy world under a blanket. It requires your time and effort. Don't want to put that time and effort in; it is not going to work out.

I believe that many simply lack the capacity to analyze, think things through, and participate in critical, constructive discussion. My “evidence“ to support this idea, is the behavior of individuals on social media, at public meetings, “protests” , etc.  It seems far too often, when engaged in political discourse, one side, or the other, become aggressive and sometimes  violent when it’s believed “their” particular viewpoint is being ignored. I acknowledge that my perception is somewhat skewed by the reality of media and society in general continuously focusing on the extreme and often fringe viewpoints of participants. 

So, like Permabeta suggests, I’ll remain aware but focus on what I can directly control and influence, which outside of myself and small circle of loved ones, isn’t much.

There is a tendency for those who are highly engaged in thinking and acting on political processes to see anyone else who isn’t as highly engaged in a similar manner as ‘having one’s head in the sand’. That kind of purity test tends to result in an erosion of support for movements that have valid principles behind them. A ‘big tent’ acts truly as a big tent to a range of views and engagement, and tends to be politically successful.

Permabetawrote:

Sure, in theory. But how much knowledge of current events/politics is really necessary for a functional democracy? Do you believe more political exposure is inherently “better” than alternative uses of one’s time, say climbing, or reading scientific journals?

I mean, AI can probably give a pretty good “year in review” summary of key events, along with stances of political candidates, come election time. What value do I gain from reading the Atlantic, National Review, etc., listening to political podcasts, or watching local/world news? Has democracy benefitted from our 24- hour new cycle, or the wealth of media exploring every niche of the political spectrum?

I would be cautious relying on AI. Besides it's well documented tendency to just make shit up it's also subject to manipulation. I agree that extracting a semblance of reality from the sea of information can be hard. But, as noted by several of our founding fathers, a well informed citizenry is critical to a democracy.

"Sticking your head in the sand" is similar to "if you aren't outraged then you aren't paying attention."    Actually, I have been paying attention for so long that I have ceased to be outraged.

I'm all for doing something if you can make a difference.   However, I live in one of the left-most towns in the left-most state in the country, and my vote absolutely does not count, ever.   On the other hand, I DO have 100% control over my own life: what I eat, how much I sleep, how impeccable I am in my job and with my family and friends.  Many ignore the important  things that they can actually change, and instead obsess on shit that they have absolutely no control over.   No thanks.

Over miles of ridges and thousands of pitches, true empathy was realized. I love this woman. 

All I know is that my 800w inverter that plugged into a  cigarette lighter style power source worked fine for my laptop and would also run the Ryobi 18v charger for the mini vacuum. When I plugged my Makita charger into it for the 18v Makita rotary hammer it blew the fuse instantly.  I hard wired a 1500w  inverter into my auxiliary battery bank and that will run the Makita charger. 

M Spraguewrote:

Sticking your head in the sand and saying " I don't do politics" is exactly what so many in Russia do. Look at the results. We obviously don't want to completely flood a climbing/campfire thread with it or go off the rails with incivility, but we do need to practice analyzing and thinking through things clearly and practice critical constructive discussion without melting into an emotional freak-out. We are in crisis and if we don't all work hard at getting back to some civic sanity rather than covering our eyes and ears and indulging in the make believe, things will get a lot worse, with more violence from instable individuals and a sick and incompetent government attacking its own population..

It would be nice if we actually participated more in our governance so we didn't have to discuss it as much in our other spheres of interaction, but very few do. Go to a local town government  meeting and it is almost all old people, some very well meaning and still effective, but quite a few obviously past their prime and no longer sharp enough to be up to the task, Many positions are unfilled due to lack of candidates. What you end up with is a few retirees trying to keep things running with the help of a few trained technocrats, which leaves room for those with strong personal/business agendas and money to run roughshod over communities (often developer types who want the rules relaxed for them so they can develop every square inch) 

Good politics starts small with individuals taking responsibility and being willing to talk and work things through and not be stuck in their own little heads in a fantasy world under a blanket. It requires your time and effort. Don't want to put that time and effort in; it is not going to work out.

Great stuff, thanks so much. 

Ward Smithwrote:

"Sticking your head in the sand" is similar to "if you aren't outraged then you aren't paying attention."    Actually, I have been paying attention for so long that I have ceased to be outraged.

I'm all for doing something if you can make a difference.   However, I live in one of the left-most towns in the left-most state in the country, and my vote absolutely does not count, ever.   On the other hand, I DO have 100% control over my own life: what I eat, how much I sleep, how impeccable I am in my job and with my family and friends.  Many ignore the important  things that they can actually change, and instead obsess on shit that they have absolutely no control over.   No thanks.

Yup. It’s not so much sticking one’s head in the sand, as avoiding putting it in mud. I‘m not ignoring responsibility, or reality, but instead focusing on what can be controlled. For most of us, that ain’t politics. 

As far as democracy collapsing, voter turnout (for POTUS) has been up the last two elections, pretty high relative to historical averages. And information is as easily accessible as it’s ever been. Despite those realities, the common refrain, from all sides of the political spectrum, is we’re in crisis, fighting for the very “soul” of society. Maybe immersing ourselves in more politics isn’t the answer?

Li Huwrote:

I think USA needs to tone down the rhetoric, every word on the right is “radical left” every word on the left is “MAGA conservatives”.

When people meet, like Tyler met his roommate then fell in love with him, he’s the type we should be concerned about. He grew up shooting long range for game with very conservative values. Dropped out of University after one period. Hypothetically speaking, he was likely shocked that the left isn’t as far as he’d been led to believe growing up.

I went through a similar shock.

People are different, but really not that much different. The left and right media make people  look like they should be at war.

And the same thing goes for international affairs.

It’s a really big mess in North America. All sides.

I hope we all make peace for the entire world? There’s so much to look forward to in all our futures…

It's hard not to agree.

It doesn't help that the person with the biggest "bully pulpit" in the country insists on "pouring gas on the fire..." at every opportunity.  He has no desire to "tone down the rhetoric...", because he finds political advantage in creating outrage and division.

Those who need to curry favor, will imitate him.  Those opposed feel the need to "fight fire with fire..."

As for most media, they're not news sources, but entertainment vehicles.  Alex Jones and Rush Limbaugh made fortunes taking a grain of truth and wrapping it in moral outrage.  (I'm sure there are "radical left" examples...)

Ed "it's like Franco's Spain, keep your head down and your mouth shut..." E

Ps.  Obligatory climbing photo from the Vermont...

Permabetawrote:

Yup. It’s not so much sticking one’s head in the sand, as avoiding putting it in mud. I‘m not ignoring responsibility, or reality, but instead focusing on what can be controlled. For most of us, that ain’t politics. 

As far as democracy collapsing, voter turnout (for POTUS) has been up the last two elections, pretty high relative to historical averages. And information is as easily accessible as it’s ever been. Despite those realities, the common refrain, from all sides of the political spectrum, is we’re in crisis, fighting for the very “soul” of society. Maybe immersing ourselves in more politics isn’t the answer?

You do realize high election turnout is in no way shape or form a guarantee of a healthy democracy? Some of the worst dictatorships in the world have high election turnout but those elections don't mean anything. A healthy democracy requires rule of law, an impartial judiciary and a system responsive to the wishes of the electorate. 

Adding an unrelated addendum here to escape the post limit but I asked about folks experiences with cataract surgery a while back. Had one eye done three weeks ago and the other one last week and all I can say is wow. You lose something slowly over a period of time and you may not understand what you've lost until you get it back. Wish I had done it earlier.

Ward Smithwrote:

"Sticking your head in the sand" is similar to "if you aren't outraged then you aren't paying attention."    Actually, I have been paying attention for so long that I have ceased to be outraged.

I'm all for doing something if you can make a difference.   However, I live in one of the left-most towns in the left-most state in the country, and my vote absolutely does not count, ever.   On the other hand, I DO have 100% control over my own life: what I eat, how much I sleep, how impeccable I am in my job and with my family and friends.  Many ignore the important  things that they can actually change, and instead obsess on shit that they have absolutely no control over.   No thanks.

I wouldn't give up on your ability to make a difference, Ward. You have skills dealing with committees I would imagine from your work for instance and can be personable and well spoken if you want to be. Just being a moderating influence and responsible example helps. It is not like you are expected to do it all by yourself. A lot of people giving a little shove can move big things... We all don't do a lot of stuff needed for society because it is a pain in the ass and we would just as soon somebody else does it. I am not saying you don't already do more than most, but, in general as a society, I don't think we calculate the danger of leaving things to others as much as we do.

When it comes to voting, I think a lot of people don't recognize the impact they can have on small local elections that often come down to just a few people. Not only does it impact your local situation, but voting down a crackpot can help keep them from growing in power and lift those worthy. We really, really need some better candidates. 

ed esmondwrote:

You are looking well, Ed. Are you taking vitamin pills or something?

The climb he is on is a total Heap...  

Emil Briggswrote:

You do realize high election turnout is in no way shape or form a guarantee of a healthy democracy? Some of the worst dictatorships in the world have high election turnout but those elections don't mean anything. A healthy democracy requires rule of law, an impartial judiciary and a system responsive to the wishes of the electorate. 

Adding an unrelated addendum here to escape the post limit but I asked about folks experiences with cataract surgery a while back. Had one eye done three weeks ago and the other one last week and all I can say is wow. You lose something slowly over a period of time and you may not understand what you've lost until you get it back. Wish I had done it earlier.

OK. If voter turnout out isn’t good enough proxy, how do we ensure the general population is involved in the “right” way(s)? In my relatively limited appreciation of contemporary politics, seems like we‘ve moved to a kind of adversarial populism, where politics has become a bigger, not smaller, part of our collective consciousness. Meanwhile, confirmation bias amplifying algorithms serve to outsize “bad” news, and fringe viewpoints. With that backdrop, I’m questioning the value of increasing intake of the politics du jour - sometimes less is more.

I‘ll compare it to something I know a lot more about: nutrition. Nowadays, we’re flooded with advice on what constitutes a healthy diet, and “pop” nutrition has diverged quite a bit from the science. Is it better to watch another podcast to clarify matters, or read up on the latest fad diet? I doubt it, at least as far as health outcomes are concerned. If anything, we’re getting less healthy, despite basic nutritional tenets being well established, and a wealth of info at our fingertips.

But much like nutrition, there are many ingredients in a healthy democracy. We just need to consume enough of the “right” stuff, and minimize the junk. Regardless, it’s worth entertaining the possibility that overconsumption is just as bad as starving.

M Spraguewrote:

You are looking well, Ed. Are you taking vitamin pills or something?

Spriggy,

It‘s a trick of the camera.  In that Nick G photo, I am, like the climb, a “total heap…” 

ed “it’s the real me…” e

ps. Miss you and hope you’re well….

I used to charge my Bosch 36v tools in the middle of the day with a 50 watt harbor freight panel and a cheap ass 400 watt inverter without a problem. Did it for years on a sunny off grid island where I worked. It's all about when you charge and having your panel at the perfect angle.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

The climb he is on is a total Heap...  

Nick:

-  Most likely your comment is meant to illustrate a positive attribute;

-  If not? Well shoot: there went your all-expense-paid invitation to try out the climbing in Pinnacles National Park in California with me (with its climbing history going back to 1933).