Bulking

I was wondering if anyone has had strength gains from bulking and then cutting back down

(just finding an excuse to justify weight gain from drinking beer)

My friend mikey did. Then he decided gains were more fun than climbing and became a pure weight lifter.

Strength gains in terms of being able to lift more weight? Sure. Mass moves mass.

Strength gains in terms of being able to climb harder routes? No. Not necessarily if it comes with weight gain.

Many people would be better served to cut some body fat and prioritize weight lifting for strength specific gains (i.e. lifting at lower rep ranges and maintaining a high RPE - rate of perceived exertion), rather than lifting for hypertrophy and putting on more mass.

I used to work as a personal trainer and have been able to bring a lot of that knowledge over and adjust it accordingly towards climbing goals.

I had great results a little over a decade ago, I went on something close to the GOMAD (gallon of milk a day) diet, I was a skinny little rat so maybe that's why it helped me so much. The good part about that was it was really easy to shed the weight after, just stop drinking milk. 

I still drink a fair bit of milk now as a cheap source of protein. 

Yes I have had success lifting and gaining strength. This improved:
1) Bouldering strength

2) Climbing stamina

3) Injury prevention

Yes it came with some mass gain. But this was (and is) NOT super-bro barbell lifting trying to lift as much weight as possible. 

Pro climber Natasha Barnes has a lot of good podcasts and thoughts on this: light does not mean best for climbing. 

Cosmic Hotdogwrote:

Strength gains in terms of being able to lift more weight? Sure. Mass moves mass.

Strength gains in terms of being able to climb harder routes? No. Not necessarily if it comes with weight gain.

Many people would be better served to cut some body fat and prioritize weight lifting for strength specific gains (i.e. lifting at lower rep ranges and maintaining a high RPE - rate of perceived exertion), rather than lifting for hypertrophy and putting on more mass.

I used to work as a personal trainer and have been able to bring a lot of that knowledge over and adjust it accordingly towards climbing goals.

This is a load of shit. You do not need to lose body fat to climb well, especially considering most climbers tend to be on the leaner side anyway. Strength always wins over starving yourself to lose a few pounds. Lift weights, drink beer, climb hard. Simple formula, really. 

Maybe take a step back, take a few deep breaths, and attempt to not project your own insecurities so much. I didn't say anything about you personally.  

Try reading what I wrote again. Notice that I didn't say anyone needs to lose body fat and certainly didn't say that anyone needs to do that to climb well. In the context of OP's question about bulking and then cutting, I said many people, not all, would be better off just cutting a little fat (instead of bulking and cutting) and prioritizing strength gains.

Your brilliant post advising people that drinking beer is part of...god knows what you're even spewing about, is...interesting advice. 

This thread is pretty interesting. Hits on a soft spot for a few people.

To the OP you are correct, it’s basically like wearing a weight vest while climbing. You adapt to the changes in weight and get stronger, if you lose that weight, you’ll probably be a little stronger still. Losing weight isn’t a great way to get better at climbing though, and drinking is pretty bad for recovery, although you can get away with it if you’re in your 20s.

In all honesty it’s not a bad plan to have periodized time for treats and such, then a more strict diet for performance. But in the end weight shouldn’t be the thing holding you back unless you’re at an elite level of climbing. 

jessie briggswrote:

This thread is pretty interesting. Hits on a soft spot for a few people.

To the OP you are correct, it’s basically like wearing a weight vest while climbing. You adapt to the changes in weight and get stronger, if you lose that weight, you’ll probably be a little stronger still. Losing weight isn’t a great way to get better at climbing though, and drinking is pretty bad for recovery, although you can get away with it if you’re in your 20s.

In all honesty it’s not a bad plan to have periodized time for treats and such, then a more strict diet for performance. But in the end weight shouldn’t be the thing holding you back unless you’re at an elite level of climbing. 

...you are literally the only person who has replied with an overreaction to this thread. J W's comments might have been deleted, but he was disagreeing with you too. And earlier you advised drinking beer, while now you're acknowledging it's pretty bad for recovery. Then one moment losing weight is a load of shit...while now acknowledging that in conjunction with getting stronger, some weight loss can add to strength gains. Gee, it's almost like someone (me) said that who you then attacked for saying it, while you're now on board with it. 

Pick a position, or don't. What a wild flip flop it is to read your posts. 

Hahaha no no. I was merely joking saying that beer is good for training, sarcasm anyone?

I still stand by losing weight isn’t a great way to get stronger either. Sorry bud. All I said is that it can(which it does) make your strength to weight ratio better. Is that optimal? No.

Basically all I’m saying is there isn’t anything wrong with gaining mass from lifting(which you said should be avoided by lifting for strength, not hypertrophy), and that losing body fat isn’t going to make you better at climbing(it might make your hangs better, but it isn’t going to make you better). The beer part was legit a joke, mostly because climbers take this shit way too seriously. I’ve legitimately watched friends climb 13+ hammered, we’re all just out there to have a good time, right?

Most people do not need to lose body fat and lift specifically for strength and not hypertrophy. That’s the part I disagree with you on. Mass, especially in the form of muscle is great for literally everyone. 

Cheers

A final bit of story time too, then I’m over it.

Years ago, I was at okellys crack in jtree. There’s these two really fit young guys top roping wangerbanger, then up walks John long. He asks to use their top rope, hikes it, then leaves. They were stunned. How could this old guy with a beer gut absolutely hike their crack project? Experience, and skill, that’s how. They had no idea who John long was. Funny shit.

https://rockclimberstrainingmanual.com/training-for-rock-climbing/weight-management/

"

During the Performance Phase of a training cycle, when striving to maximize performance, it is beneficial to temporarily trim down to as low as 5 to 6 percent body fat for men, and 12 to 14 percent for women. (Body-fat percentage is difficult to measure in practice; therefore, find your optimal climbing weight by tracking performance.) Each climber may need to experiment to determine where that point of diminishing returns is. Record your body weight in a training journal, along with notes about the corresponding energy level and quality of performance, in order to determine an ideal “fighting weight.”

At the end of each season’s peak, it is acceptable (and even desirable), to relax dietary restrictions and bulk up by five to ten pounds throughout the Rest Phase and into the following Strength Phase.

"

It is very difficult to get stronger while cutting or really leaned out. If you have a performance season and a training season I think it makes sense to start gaining weight at the tail end of the performance season and cutting it at the tail end of the training season.

Jacob I'll see your logical comment and raise you my inability to understand that while what you're saying makes sense, it gives me a case of the oh no's and the sads and therefore I will dismiss it as an untrue bunch of BS and I'll base that on personal anecdotes that hold no weight whatsoever.

JK, I won't do that because I'm capable of rational thought and even if I didn't like what you're saying, I can separate my own feelings and bias from logic and reason. 

Jacob Millerwrote:

It is very difficult to get stronger while cutting or really leaned out. If you have a performance season and a training season I think it makes sense to start gaining weight at the tail end of the performance season and cutting it at the tail end of the training season.

This statement makes sense to me, as this is more directed at a strength to weight ratio as opposed to mass equals strength which is less applicable to climbing. When considering a strength to weight ratio, personally, I perform better on the heavy side than light. Five extra pounds for me generally means 10 pounds in extra pulling power and my fingers don't really notice the difference so much. Some may see the opposite effect and that's also correct based on their experience.

I have a thread that is addressing this exactly. I’ve just recently started cutting weight and doing cardio and now I have lost considerable strength and muscle mass. I was asking questions of the community of why it was happening and I now have a different idea of whether I want to do cardio or not. I did want to get rid of my belly fat, but not at the expense of my climbing. Weirdly enough I was climbing better with my belly fat and being heavier than I am now after cutting weight. I guess things are complicated and everyone is different but that is my current experience that I am going through.

Jon Hartmannwrote:

I have a thread that is addressing this exactly. I’ve just recently started cutting weight and doing cardio and now I have lost considerable strength and muscle mass. I was asking questions of the community of why it was happening and I now have a different idea of whether I want to do cardio or not. I did want to get rid of my belly fat, but not at the expense of my climbing. Weirdly enough I was climbing better with my belly fat and being heavier than I am now after cutting weight. I guess things are complicated and everyone is different but that is my current experience that I am going through.

I would highly recommend the 3 or 4 part series from Mike Israetel on YouTube discussing strategies for fat loss diets that minimize muscle loss. I have done several cuts over the years and adopting his strategies significantly minimized the amount of muscle loss I experienced. The first time I ever tried to lose fat I was rather naive and ended up shedding a ton of muscle I worked very hard to build. Some muscle loss is inevitable which is why it’s advisable to not put on too much fat in the first place. But a high protein high whole grain diet, lots of low fatigue cardio (not running), and high volume workouts can stave off the muscle loss for a while.