New and experienced climbers over 50 #38

Sorry to hear of your injury, Ken, it sounds very serious.

Are there any specific types of entertainment you would like us to provide?  ;)

Lori, Frontal Lobotomy is one of many classic routes first climbed by Matt Cox, when he was still in High School.

Many of us recently learned that Matt had passed away last October. 

Spencer Lennard posted about this here:

 https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/201573114/matt-cox

Heal well and soon..

Thank you, Randy. I don’t know how it is I never noticed Matt Cox before.  I certainly recognize that Diamond Dogs route. He looked like a true force and that’s always something to celebrate.

I am kind of lost in my own thoughts this morning. Sometimes motivation is hard to pinpoint.  I know I am drawn to the history of strong, healthy young men who went a little nuts here, and I see it in these amazing routes.

But I’m not sure exactly why I climb. 

I think I’m protesting against several decades of watching my family become overrun by death and depression. Two of my four kids fought some long, bitter battles – – and so did their friends. All I could do was try to stem the tide with all the positivism I could muster, all the regular meals and a good home and counseling and rehabs. And attorneys, hospitals and jails.  And getting sucked into a system that only made things worse.  

I promised myself that if I made it through that last 20 years, I would have a life that celebrated life.  I want my kids to know that there is adventure and good things ahead for them  My daughter‘s birthday was yesterday and she’s a little overwhelmed atm with kids and dogs and a husband.She kind of brightens up knowing that “mom is out climbing AGAIN “.    I brighten up too.  

Actually, I’d like my older friends to realize they don’t have to call it a day so soon. I’d like to convince the Medical community to expect a little more of us oldsters. 

But I had a hard time on diamond dogs. That flake is really something else. Seeing a very vigorous Matt Cox doing it right kind of makes me wonder if I should be doing it at all.  

—-

Meanwhile, Tony is in Chicago having the time of his life, eating brats and pizza and bonding with what seems like dozens of family members. He showed me a “real Chicago hotdog” that gave me indigestion, just looking at it.  Apparently the poppyseeds are the key to this hot dog.

I have no idea why we are together. He could not identify a single rock formation in Joshua Tree, except one. (which he calls Intercourse Rock).  He was apparently so well raised and raised so much hell as a kid that he has no need to do so now. But he says Joshua Tree is home. 

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

number chasing has morphed into number avoidance haha.

Oh yeah, I get it.  It occurred to me reading this that if I at least sometimes used to chase grades, it is now the grades that are chasing me.

Thanks for that, Cherokee. Spot on.

rgoldwrote:

Oh yeah, I get it.  It occurred to me reading this that if I at least sometimes used to chase grades, it is now the grades that are chasing me.

"And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into you"

                                                                                                    - Friedrich Nietzsche

A decade or so ago I would have been horrified at our use of cheater extendo poles like the Grim Reacher https://hownot2.com/products/grim-reacher that I gave Isa for her 67th birthday but  now I am totally fine with it. Anything to keep us out on the cliff having fun.   Several of my friends have recently posted trip reports of doing Via Feratis in Europe. In the past I might have brushed those off as under achieving . Now they look wicked cool! 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

A decade or so ago I would have been horrified at our use of cheater extendo poles like the Grim Reacher https://hownot2.com/products/grim-reacher that I gave Isa for her 67th birthday but  now I am totally fine with it. Anything to keep us out on the cliff having fun.   Several of my friends have recently posted trip reports of doing Via Feratis in Europe. In the past I might have brushed those off as under achieving . Now they look wicked cool! 

I stopped making fun of cheater sticks once I realized many climbs were bolted with them in mind. I love a day(week)(month) of easy cruising , it's relaxing and good exercise. Plus injuries suck.

Edit- I still make fun of cheater sticks when used to get to the anchors 

Cherokee 

Well put.

Thank you for writing what I feel.

Later all 

Edit to add:     Ken, when are you going to act your age! Bicycle stunts, flips and wheelies are for people 1/3 your age. NOT 

Hurry up and heal up. 

Guy Keeseewrote:

Edit to add:     Ken, when are you going to act your age! Bicycle stunts, flips and wheelies are for people 1/3 your age. NOT 

Hurry up and heal up. 

LOL Guy, hopefully never!

I'm really just an intermediate level mountain biker. For me it's about conditioning and finding flow. 

If anyone is interested this video shows the trail (Springboard at Alsea Falls) I was on.

The place I biffed is on the "techy climb" after the bridge at about the four minute mark. In hindsight I think fatigue might have played a part. I was on my second lap that day so had already ridden about 15 miles and climbed 2800 feet. I do that fairly frequently but on this particular day I was feeling strong and was pushing pretty hard.

What I really need to give up is my motorcycle. I've got a KTM 690 Enduro and with a fresh set of knobbies that thing is is sooo much fun on all the logging roads we have in the Coast Range just west of me. I don't let myself own a sport bike anymore because I just get stupid on those things. I've got a 91 Porsche 911 (aka 964) that suffices for fun days in the mountains. It's appreciated so much since I bought it in 1997 that I'm afraid to drive it hard anymore so it's mostly just for leisurely cruises to the coast for lunch or day trips to Smith Rock for trail running/hiking/soloing. 

Thanks everyone for all the well wishes! I appreciate the moral support. Last night was one of the best nights I've had but today was horrible.  The nurse at the neurointervention doc's office said these headaches are normal and it could be weeks before they subside. Oh joy. 

Ken, here’s a pic to keep you entertained while you heal (hopefully quickly and uneventfully)

Triceratops variation, Salt Point State Park, CA

Lori Milaswrote:

Meanwhile, Tony is in Chicago having the time of his life, eating brats and pizza and bonding with what seems like dozens of family members. He showed me a “real Chicago hotdog” that gave me indigestion, just looking at it.  Apparently the poppyseeds are the key to this hot dog.

That hotdog looks amazing, Lori! I don't know where to get anything like that in our neighborhood.

The day before yesterday, Bill and I climbed Beginner's Delight. The Williams guide says it's a 5.3. The plan is to make this another go-to climb that we can do quickly. That means getting the moves and pro wired.

However, I had massive head problems that day. I led P1 (5.3) pretty slowly, and we wound up bailing off the top of P2, when I didn't feel up to leading P3. Yesterday we came back and did it again. This time, I led P1 much faster. I also felt confident enough to lead P3, which I haven't led since 2013. It has some very fun moves at a couple of roofs.

For me, climbing is not about pushing grades. I get happy just climbing up outdoor routes that I can easily do without risk of injury.
I'd be happy if I could feel comfortable leading all the 5.3s at the Gunks. That's my stretch goal. Who knows, maybe at that point I'd start thinking about grades.
The challenges to climbing, for me, are almost all mental:

- Am I on the route? Where does the route go? (Route-finding is not my strength)
- Where's my next pro? (Sometimes I'm sketched out and miss placements)
- Do I have the right gear so that I can place pro when I need it?
- Am I tall enough, or are there spots which are much more difficult for a short person? (The FA was usually a man who was probably a lot taller than me)
- Am I strong enough to pull some move that may be easy for someone with more upper body strength? (Ditto)

Here's Bill coming up to the belay at the top of P1 on Beginner's:

dragonswrote:

That hotdog looks amazing, Lori! I don't know where to get anything like that in our neighborhood.

The day before yesterday, Bill and I climbed Beginner's Delight. The Williams guide says it's a 5.3. The plan is to make this another go-to climb that we can do quickly. That means getting the moves and pro wired.

However, I had massive head problems that day. I led P1 (5.3) pretty slowly, and we wound up bailing off the top of P2, when I didn't feel up to leading P3. Yesterday we came back and did it again. This time, I led P1 much faster. I also felt confident enough to lead P3, which I haven't led since 2013. It has some very fun moves at a couple of roofs.

For me, climbing is not about pushing grades. I get happy just climbing up outdoor routes that I can easily do without risk of injury.
I'd be happy if I could feel comfortable leading all the 5.3s at the Gunks. That's my stretch goal. Who knows, maybe at that point I'd start thinking about grades.
The challenges to climbing, for me, are almost all mental:

- Am I on the route? Where does the route go? (Route-finding is not my strength)
- Where's my next pro? (Sometimes I'm sketched out and miss placements)
- Do I have the right gear so that I can place pro when I need it?
- Am I tall enough, or are there spots which are much more difficult for a short person? (The FA was usually a man who was probably a lot taller than me)
- Am I strong enough to pull some move that may be easy for someone with more upper body strength? (Ditto)

Here's Bill coming up to the belay at the top of P1 on Beginner's:

That route is deceptive!

It's rated 5.4 on the app as well as here on MP (although, as has been said before, only in the Gunks does one debate .3 vs .4!) but that second pitch is no joke!

When to start the traverse, not great pro on the traverse for the leader or the follower, and the beautiful exposure all makes for an amazing climbing experience!

I need to do it again as I remember getting a little dry mouthed on the second pitch on lead!

Well done on you for revisiting it and working through the fear!  That's one of the things that keeps me coming back.  I'm not interested in pushing grades (obviously!) as much as over coming fear, and the Gunks are great for that!  

Hope to climb with you guys again soon!!!

And Ken, not much to say that hasn't already been said but DAMN Man!  Sorry that happened to you but at least it happened while "getting after it"!  

Take it easy for the next few months and heal up safely and completely so that you can get back out "there"!  

I know that any day something can happen to any of us but it can happen sitting on the couch as well as doing something adventurous and I do not plan on sealing myself in a plastic bubble trying to avoid some odd event for the rest of my life!

Hell, I've had two close friends my age, mid-50's, recently diagnosed with severe medical problems (one MS at 55, one cancer at 54) and neither of them do any real "adventurous" sports. 

As one of my favourite bands (Lord Huron) always says when they close their live shows, "May you LIVE until you die"!

For me, it's aim to be as alive as possible....until I'm not.

Ken, boy, yeah it'd be hard to give up much of anything you do, but especially forest service roads! There's sooo much! Long ago, when I lived in Ashland, we made a day trip to play in the Rogue river, or Applegate? Don't remember. But, the driver (my date??!? God that was so long ago!) decided to take the "short cut" back to Ashland, on the forest service/logging roads (those have their own thrills, lol).

Many many hours later?

We surfaced to a paved road.

In California.

I had a Chicago dog in the airport, running between flights. Lori, post up the ingredients, per Tony. It's a pretty peculiar list. 

dragonswrote:

The day before yesterday, Bill and I climbed Beginner's Delight. The Williams guide says it's a 5.3. The plan is to make this another go-to climb that we can do quickly. That means getting the moves and pro wired.

However, I had massive head problems that day. I led P1 (5.3) pretty slowly, and we wound up bailing off the top of P2, when I didn't feel up to leading P3. Yesterday we came back and did it again. This time, I led P1 much faster. I also felt confident enough to lead P3, which I haven't led since 2013. It has some very fun moves at a couple of roofs.

For me, climbing is not about pushing grades. I get happy just climbing up outdoor routes that I can easily do without risk of injury.
I'd be happy if I could feel comfortable leading all the 5.3s at the Gunks. That's my stretch goal. Who knows, maybe at that point I'd start thinking about grades.

_____________________

I have a question about relative grades.  I've been seeing a lot of posts on this thread about Gunks climbs in the 5.2 to 5.6 grade range. I mostly climb moderate climbs in California, Yosemite, etc. and have never climbed on the East Coast. Honestly it seems difficult to find a lot of climbs in that range here.  It seems like most stuff is graded starting at 5.6 or 5.7.  For people who have climbed out west and in the Gunks are these grades equivalent?  What would a Gunks 5.2 be graded in Yosemite?  I understand that they are different styles.

Old lady Hwrote:

I had a Chicago dog in the airport, running between flights. Lori, post up the ingredients, per Tony. It's a pretty peculiar list. 

Well, it’s war.    I never knew that Chicagoans could get so full of themselves over “real” Chicago hot dogs “real “Chicago Pizza.  Tony is not the first one to go on and on about this. I had neighbors who actually moved back to Chicago after a year because they couldn’t procure the authentic pizza that they felt they just had to have. And the weather here was too… Damp, or hot, or dry… Something they didn’t like. 

Meanwhile, his relatives are sure that he is being forced to eat exclusively kale and sprouts here in California.  

Here is a clip from the website of Jean and Jude‘s, one of the places that serves the real deal. You will notice the ketchup is forbidden. There are also no seats. It is a cash only diner. And I understand there are lines.

According to Tony, it has to be the right bun, with poppy seeds. It has to be the right dog, steamed, and then placed into the bun upside down, so the steam rises and warms the bun. All that has to happen or forget it.

So I say knock yourself out, buddy. Get it while you can. 

Ship Twrote:

dragonswrote:

The day before yesterday, Bill and I climbed Beginner's Delight. The Williams guide says it's a 5.3. The plan is to make this another go-to climb that we can do quickly. That means getting the moves and pro wired.

However, I had massive head problems that day. I led P1 (5.3) pretty slowly, and we wound up bailing off the top of P2, when I didn't feel up to leading P3. Yesterday we came back and did it again. This time, I led P1 much faster. I also felt confident enough to lead P3, which I haven't led since 2013. It has some very fun moves at a couple of roofs.

For me, climbing is not about pushing grades. I get happy just climbing up outdoor routes that I can easily do without risk of injury.
I'd be happy if I could feel comfortable leading all the 5.3s at the Gunks. That's my stretch goal. Who knows, maybe at that point I'd start thinking about grades.

_____________________

I have a question about relative grades.  I've been seeing a lot of posts on this thread about Gunks climbs in the 5.2 to 5.6 grade range. I mostly climb moderate climbs in California, Yosemite, etc. and have never climbed on the East Coast. Honestly it seems difficult to find a lot of climbs in that range here.  It seems like most stuff is graded starting at 5.6 or 5.7.  For people who have climbed out west and in the Gunks are these grades equivalent?  What would a Gunks 5.2 be graded in Yosemite?  I understand that they are different styles.

It’s the nature of the medium. Yosemite granite usually lack the prolific features that exist at the Gunks. It’s a challenging comparison.

The place I biffed is on the "techy climb" after the bridge at about the four minute mark. In hindsight I think fatigue might have played a part. I was on my second lap that day so had already ridden about 15 miles and climbed 2800 feet. I do that fairly frequently but on this particular day I was feeling strong and was pushing pretty hard.

I do a load of trail mileage and I can attest to the fact that nearly (not quite) all of the crashes on my mountain bike that resulted in some sort of injury (cracked ribs seem to be the favorite) were of the "0 mph variety." 

And 100% of them are no fun. Heal up!!