More People Should Lead

Sometimes I wanna lead cuz I like placing gear and figuring things out. Other times I like top roping cuz it’s fun to just move over rock without stopping to place gear or figure things out.

phylp phylpwrote:

Oh I think this is a perfect opportunity to share my recent onsight gear lead adventure - which was also on toprope at the very same time!

I say this is award winning because it was taken by my partner Skip while she was simultaneously belaying me on lead and toprope! That is talent!

The double Grigri here is cracking me up. I have no other feedback.

phylp phylpwrote:

Here is the award winning photo of this event:

rock around the clock, what a fun climb (although i wouldn't be out there in mid-summer ;-) !!!

I lead all the time but I'm happy to TR stuff for the challenge.  I prefer not to fall these days.  I'm not afraid of falling per se, I've fallen plenty in the past, but I've gotten broken enough with falling that I don't want to get broke no more.  It takes too long to heal and my time on the earth is not long enough anymore to devote 6 months to healing an injury.

amen...

Lynn Hill said to never pass up a top rope.
Do what you will with this information.

I generally find leading much more enjoyable and rewarding.  However, I think I got sucked into a mindset that unless you lead it clean to the top, "it doesn't count".  In practice then, this means the only alternative is an unanticipated fall.  

Recently I have tried to become more OK with hanging/resting, pulling on gear etc, if that feel right.  You can always go back for the redpoint another day, or even later that day.  You can even lower before you get to the top (as appropriate), especially if your partner is psyched to take over the lead. 

Sorry for the 2 minute thread drift:

old5tenwrote:

rock around the clock, what a fun climb (although i wouldn't be out there in mid-summer ;-) !!!

amen...

Elmar, I should have thought to ask you, you know that place so well.  I've done rock around the clock, and it is a great route, but this unnamed sport route is located where I put the black spot on your photo of that area. It behind Caiman and to the left of Wave Rock.  The little crack I faux-led was super easy...But would not have been a good toprope because of the almost 90 degree diagonal from the top of the crack to the openshuts.  Faster and easier to lead to place a correct directional than fool around with directionals from the top...

While I'm happy to lead and push myself, I have no shame in backing off if I feel there is reasonable risk of getting injured. At the end of the day, I don't climb to prove anything, just have fun. In addition to injuries being depressing and taking me out of the sport and work, if it's bad enough I could easily find myself bankrupt.

I think fewer people should be telling other people what they should be doing.

Soft Catches and The Hard Truthwrote:

Obviously, if you're a staunch traditionalist, you should be going ground up.

That said, climbers should be lead climbing more across the disciplines. The primary benefit of top roping is to remove the fear element—but I think this has gone too far. I often see climbers who are strong enough to send a route spend far too long working it on top rope. If they simply led more often, they’d waste far less time, as their fear management would naturally improve. Not to mention, someone still has to hang the top rope for them…

There absolutely is a place for top roping, I just don't know that the practice should be so wide spread.

What are your thoughts? 

Have you thought of doing some volunteer work? 

rgoldwrote:

I think fewer people should be telling other people what they should be doing.

I love this rgold! 

Cosmic Hotdogwrote:

Everyone defines being a climber differently, and that's ok. 

I don't believe someone is a true trad climber if they never take falls on gear. I don't believe people who clip bolts and refuse to fall are real climbers either. To me, you're just pretending if you're not able to get over your own fear of falling. Does that make me right? Nope.

Part of how I define being a climber is the ability to not just lead, but to lead at and above your limit (whatever it may be), and to be able to face your fear, get past it, and continue on. Does that mean that's the only definition of what being a climber is? Nope.

Should people lead more often? In my opinion, yes. Should people push themselves and take falls more often when it's safe to do so? In my opinion, yes. Does my opinion matter at all? Nope!

So long as people are out there enjoying themselves and not impacting others or the environment in a negative way, who am I to say that their definition of climbing and their approach to it is wrong? Live and let live. Choose climbing partners who share your views, and let people do their thing. At the end of the day, none of it matters anyway so just go out and have a good time - however you define it.  

Guess I'm too old school,  and too much of an ice climber. I still have the leader must not fall ethic. Really,  once you fall,  you are no longer in control of what happens.

C Hwrote:

Guess I'm too old school,  and too much of an ice climber. I still have the leader must not fall ethic. Really,  once you fall,  you are no longer in control of what happens.

If ice climbing, I agree with you - falling while leading ice or dry tooling is nightmare fuel. For the other styles of climbing, I respectfully disagree so long as you're not in danger of hitting a ledge, taking a dangerous pendulum, dragging your rope over a sharp edge, and/or you're not taking a fall on marginal gear that's likely to rip.

However, the great thing about climbing is that we don't have to agree and we can both still have a great time. Like I said in my post, it's just my opinion and it doesn't make me right.

Tarvis Kaludewrote:

People should lead because pulling on the frictiony gym top rope aggravates my climber's elbow 

Try climbing with your forearm parallel to gravity.

Nobody should be leading without self-rescue skills.

This word "leading" comes up a lot, but I think many forget what it really means.

I realize that for many nowadays it just means "sending" or attempting to send. Presumably this is a result of the increased popularity of single-pitch climbing and the cragging mindset that has become nearly ubiquitous in many areas. But it wasn't always this way.

I've seen a lot of self-proclaimed "good" climbers, who were really only just strong climbers, leading lesser-skilled followers up multi-pitch routes in all sorts of dangerous manners:

Poorly protected traverses (please put the gear in after the crux traverse too; sure, you don't need it, but your follower does) is one of the most common mistakes. Also, don't link/stretch pitches when you'll be out of earshot of your struggling follower, especially on windy days... or if there's a hard move off the belay that could result in your partner taking a ledge fall. Just because the pros are doing it doesn't mean you need to. Of course, good routefinding and anchor building skills are also qualities of a competent leader that are often overlooked in these conversations. 

In my opinion, that guy sending the gnar may be a good climber but isn't necessarily a very (good) leader.

So, when you say people should be leading more, I say they should also be focusing on actual "leading" skills too.

Spray on all you keyboard warriors!

phylp phylpwrote:

Sorry for the 2 minute thread drift:

Elmar, I should have thought to ask you, you know that place so well.  I've done rock around the clock, and it is a great route, but this unnamed sport route is located where I put the black spot on your photo of that area. It behind Caiman and to the left of Wave Rock.  The little crack I faux-led was super easy...But would not have been a good toprope because of the almost 90 degree diagonal from the top of the crack to the openshuts.  Faster and easier to lead to place a correct directional than fool around with directionals from the top...

no worries, but there are nice shady climbs around ;-)

WF WF51wrote:

Have you thought of doing some volunteer work? 

That would take too much time away from his online posting. 

Ftfy 

I prefer to lead, but Lynn Hill can’t be too wrong.

More people should

1. get married
2. have kids
3. live a nomad lifestyle
4. work in an office
5. be ranchers
6. stay single
7. own their own home
8. have no kids
9. lead sport / trad

good god

But of course …