New and experienced climbers over 50 #38

Because you’re my friends I thought you might like a ‘Carl In The Depths Of Southern Australian Winter’ poem.  

I am currently Eeyore.  

Carl Schneiderwrote:

Because you’re my friends I thought you might like a ‘Carl In The Depths Of Southern Australian Winter’ poem.  

I am currently Eeyore.  

Carl, you gotta get out of there!  You poor thing, drowning in angst.   During the winter before I moved to the desert I found myself nonstop crying. It was bad. I would look out the window and see clouds and just burst into tears again.But just remember the sun is on its way and you can get through this—you always do. Are you taking extra vitamin D?

You do have friends.   And you have a lot of time left.  Hang in there, buddy!

Rgold.  Please don’t ever stop! I have appreciated every single post of yours from the very beginning and , contrary to trying to impress, which would also be fine, your posts have served as a kind of road map for me and others. I looked at your picture last night and got a huge smile. “OK, we can still do this at 80.” I see it as a celebration and you look great, btw.

As for “spragging” I wish you and John would do a lot more of it. You are so good at selecting peak moments of your climbing career to share, but also of your life, and I really enjoy those personal stories.  

I hope all of us are decimating the stereotypes of aging. For me it’s often a lonely road, and I have deeply appreciated having this space to share the victories and the challenges.  

—-

I wrote a post a few days ago and then deleted it because I just don’t know how to keep things short. But I had tremendous good news this week and it sort of confirmed what I had been expecting – – that good living can turn a lot of things around.

The short of it is I had a visit with a dentist who is a specialist on gums and jaw bones. Four years ago when I presented myself at his office, he gave me some dire warnings about massive loss of jaw bone and the potential to be a “Dental cripple“.  He didn’t really offer a solution and made it sound like there was no turning back.  It really haunted me because I had no idea I had this problem, it was a total shock, and he was very graphic about what such a future would look like.

So I couldn’t avoid it forever and I returned this week for a full panoramic x-ray and follow up consult. Suddenly that bone is back and my jaws look “fine“. I won’t need to return.

I got the same news about the moderate osteoporosis that had developed over years. It’s gone.  My bones look great.

Right or wrong I attribute this to a massive amount of exercise, eating well and all that extra protein, sunshine nearly every day, great sleep, and of course, being a Democrat.  

So, Jan has his elbow back. Guy is back on the rock – – although still a Republican and there’s no surgery for that.   Kris is somehow miraculously whole again. And you should see Bob climb. I hope someone out there is taking notes. 

Not that we’re not all gonna die pretty soon. But I will take all the good input and information I can get to extend the time of healthy living as long as possible.  That includes eating a better tomato (why do the yellow ones taste so good?).  And resistance training.

rgold, I enjoyed your post, especially having known you in the early 70s. It brought to mind several memories. When I was (road) bike racing in the early 90s I met a guy who was still racing in his sixties and he said to me "I don't know why I still do it" and I said "Well, if you quit, you will find out". It also brought to mind a house concert that my wife and I attended when we were in our fifties. We overheard a conversation between two gentlemen in their early 90s or late 80s and one of them said "Oh, to  be 70 again". My wife and I looked at each other like, Oh god, does it get this bad?.

Do  you know what makes old people so boring?...Everything reminds them of something.

rgoldwrote:

In real life, Don Whillans once told me to fuck off. (Sadly, this is not much of an accomplishment.)

This has made my day. 

I won't say I laughed out loud but certainly internally chuckled, thanks for that. :) 

Colden Darkwrote:

We’re all impressed (not). But seriously, what’s the point? Do you want us to be impressed or is it something else? I hope when I’m as old as you I’m content to just die gracefully without posting up…

Rough night Colden???

WTF???

I've always enjoyed your posts but this one is coming from so far out in left field I wonder if it was even you posting?

RGold is just the most incredibly approachable and great guy who is still out there leading things that give me the Willie's and he's never been mean to anyone here and always posts either helpful mentoring posts or humorous posts.

No need at all for your post.  It just makes me sad.

The Dalai Lama said it best, "Be kind whenever possible. It's always possible."

But can he shoulder a sack of pitons and make it out of the shop, that's what I want to know!

Colden Darkwrote:

We’re all impressed (not). But seriously, what’s the point? Do you want us to be impressed or is it something else? I hope when I’m as old as you I’m content to just die gracefully without posting up…

Your comment was so rude. An over-80 dude posts a weighted pullup pic in response to a video of a 90-year-old doing pullups in the MP old folks' thread and you say "what's the point?". Do you even climb bro? Weighted pullups are legit training for climbing, and that is a 100% appropriate post.

I found the post+pic inspiring, esp seeing as how I've never been able to do even one pullup (I'm not yet 80, so there's still time...).

Lori Milaswrote:

...

I wrote a post a few days ago and then deleted it because I just don’t know how to keep things short. But I had tremendous good news this week and it sort of confirmed what I had been expecting – – that good living can turn a lot of things around.

I wondered where that post went! I'm glad you reposted Lori. That's great news!

Brian in SLCwrote:

Especially if your cell phone is your primary navigation tool...and photo's, and emergency communication...

I haven't quite got my head around it (yet)...but...cell phones are pretty handy.  Will admit to carrying an old school compass recently...ha ha.

I think primary tool is fine as long as you don't ONLY have the P in PACE plan.  Hell even a Garmin watch can be a backup for a couple functions,  (e.g. map, navigation, compass, barometric pressure changes as a warning).

more a fan of using watch or compass hanging around neck to navigate than having to pull out or hold onto phone.  especially when you're neck deep in the rhododendron fighting the spiders from going down your back.

Ward Smithwrote:

I know that this is bordering on political, but I am just saying what I am doing in real time. You all said that I was crazy for buying while the market was dumping.  Now it is back to all time highs, so I am selling everything that I bought.  That account is back to 60/40 cash/stock market.   Not financial advice, but things look over extended to me. 

It will be interesting to see how the market reacts to this mornings jobs report. Might be good timing on your part.

Now that's boorish!

John Gillwrote:

A little history. When I began climbing (1953) actual climbing was considered an extension of hiking. The Sierra scale was 1-5 with 2 being hiking trails I suspect. Chouinard and I would joke about solo climbing as being "3rd grade". 

The first attempt to grade climbs was (Wikipedia):

"In 1894, the Austrian mountaineer Fritz Benesch [de] introduced the first known climbing grading system, which he introduced to rock climbing. The "Benesch scale" had seven levels of difficulty, with level VII the easiest and level I the hardest; as more difficult climbs were made, the grades of level 0 and level 00 were added "

That seems really odd, now. But a little later:

"In 1923, German mountaineer Willo Welzenbach [de] compressed the scale and reversed the order so level 00 became level IV–V, and it became popular in the Alps. In 1967, the "Welzenbach scale" formally became the "UIAA scale" for rock climbing (or "UIAA Scale of Difficulty") with Roman numerals I–VI, and a "+" and "−" "

Then:

"In America, a version of the Welzenbach Scale was introduced for rock climbing in 1937 by the Sierra Club, which in the 1950s was further adapted into the Yosemite Decimal System "

In other words, philosophically, climbing was an extension of hiking. Then, in the late '50s and '60s bouldering began its journey to maturity - and it didn't seem at all like hiking. It was more athletic than most trad climbing, closer akin to gymnastics than serious walking. A few of us (including Rgold) adopted that attitude, and it was slowly cultivated by some of the upcoming young climbers - particularly from California. At first, the Sierra system was used for rating bouldering difficulty, 5.1-5.10, but that still in a way linked it to hiking. My attempt at grading (B1,B2,B3) , comparing with the YDS, was inadequate as bouldering became more popular. Then Sherman came on to the scene and established the V-scale - completely separate from hiking. And the modern French system, of course.

In the 1980s, sport climbing and speed climbing shifted the notion of a hiking extension even further away. 

This is just trivia. And others may disagree with my brief analysis. In the end it's whatever climbers feel they are doing - and lots of climbs require hiking approaches that turn into scrambling, then more serious climbing. And so, hiking and climbing are on some sort of continuum.

I ageee that historically climbing developed, and was initially seen, as an extension of hiking--that's definitely how I got into the sport in the early '60s and it seemed to be true of most of my peers. Though I never got into the pursuit of the 4000 footers or other peak-bagging goals.

As is often the case, I find that Wikipedia article on the history of grading to be quite 'bemusing' and far from complete. I admit that I had never heard of Fritz Benesch and his 'reverse' grading scale, but ( as always) there were multiple 'embryonic' grading systems that appeared at roughly the same time. Even the later British Victorian mountaineers had a rough adjectival system ( satirized, by Mummery --unfortunately with the blatantly sexist attitudes of the era, as 'impossible, hardest climb in the Alps, easy day for a lady'). At the very end of the 19th Century the early British rock climbers utilized a more formal adjectival system that, while expanded, is still in use there today. During the same time period the climbers around Dresden, Germany used a numerical system that went to at least VII, and, anticipating much later developments elsewhere, used alphabetical subgrades for the harder climbs. Other regions had their own grading systems as well. While Welzenbach is considered the 'father' of 'modern' grading systems, his main contributions were adding a sixth grade to an already existing 5 grade Alpine scale and 'standardizing' what the different grades represented---though very quickly different areas would come up with their own interpretations of what those 6 grades described.

On a totally different topic, Colden, those comments were totally inappropriate and uncalled for--very disappointing. 

One two buckle my shoe

three four swing like a door

five six hope it sticks

seven eight don't say take

nine ten ?

Layback again!

A guy is on the train. His kids are acting up. An angry commuter accosts the father.

He apologizes for being distracted and for his children's behavior.

They are returning from the hospital . . .

Hey RGold, just wanted to drop in and say a public thank you for your contributions. I joined MP about 10 years ago, around the time I moved to SoCal. I’ve been consistently impressed and entertained and educated by your posts over the years. Your intelligence and good character are always in evidence. Please continue to post for the enjoyment of your many fans.

I’m in Mammoth Lakes, climbing as much as possible for the next 8 days. Is that spragging?  

All this talk about hiking and weighted pullup training is making people with bad knees cranky   Maybe we need to bring back some soothing politics.

As far as knees go; purely personal and anecdotal, when I was having knee issues after Lyme disease and too much jumaring I found some super light (so no cranking hard, just a fairly high rev lowered gear pedaling) mountain biking) and close attention to my form (knees and toes aligned well in the direction of travel when hiking) really helped. It always amazes me how many people just kind of flop their feet around when walking  or running., sometimes like a duck falling forward and then they wonder why things wear out and don't work well. I have never liked hiking poles myself as just more stuff to manipulate. I'd rather concentrate on form and breathing so I can get into that perfect rhythm and almost go into a trance on long approaches with a big pack.

Colden, are you okay? Like Buck, I wondered if someone hacked your account?

Lori, I saw that post before you deleted it. It's good news, but made me wonder if those first diagnoses were dead wrong and your doctor and dentist really knew what they were talking about.

rgoldwrote:

...this thread has had a consistent theme of "sharing where we are," one of the features that, I believe, has made it endure. We speak of climbing, trekking, biking, paddling, skiing, health, gardening, wandering, and enduring cold and dark environments. Folks here and elsewhere post about training all the time; I did so in the same spirit...

Your words capture this thread series perfectly. Well said.