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New and experienced climbers over 50 #37
Daniel Joderwrote: Great pics! I've been to a few countries in Europe but never Spain. These shots are making me want to visit sometime. I hope the knee heals quickly. The goats reminds me of the ones that lived on Stone Mountain NC maybe 25 years ago. They were feral domestic goats but I swear they could free solo 5.8. The park removed them eventually since they were not native to the area. |
rgoldwrote: I know it sounds like a no brainer, but these folks, along with yourself, J. Gill, and others he influenced, were climbing at the cutting edge. My point is just that the rest of us were another story. Not, admittedly, as interesting a one, but i do think it's worthwhile to note that while the gear and methods you pioneered were adopted by us, the climbing techniques i knew probably would have been recognizable to someone in kletterschue from the 20s (give or take a heel hook). GO |
Lori Milaswrote: I don't do "projects". I don't object to the concept, but I can't spend that much time on one route. I think I'd exhaust the patience of any partners if I did. There are routes that I come back to, however. Probably the most I've tried/failed on a route was 5-10 times. I don't think I ever stopped because I gave up. It was mostly that I didn't get the opportunity to keep trying. There are a few routes at my old crag, Crow Hill, that I'd like to get back to and do clean. It would take a lot of work, maybe half a summer. |
Daniel Joderwrote: Ugh! Nightmarish. I hope it heals up okay Daniel! |
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Thanks, dragons. On the subject of projecting…. I often wish I had the patience and desire to do it. Many have said it can have a very positive effect in terms of simply getting better and pushing technique and grades. However, by nature I’m more of an on sight climber and enjoy easier routes and lots of variety. Even with climbing gyms, I like to rotate through the different gyms in the area when they have changed their routes… I just like to see different things—and maybe one positive is that it might help build up my “library” of climbing movements. On dynamic moves… I very rarely do that on real rock but may give such a move a go in the gym if it’s safe. I guess I’m old school static. Anecdote about non-conventional moves BITD: Back in 1977, I was following my climbing buddy Jeff on the crux pitch of the Northwest Passage on the Third Flatiron when I watched him throw up a heel hook and pull through the overhang. Oh my god! I was amazed! Nowadays a heel hook is soooo ho-hum. |
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I’m of the opinion that one has to be wired in a different way for projecting. I absolutely love the journey of getting really intimate with a route to make it go, and generally feel a little deflated once it is put down. Fortunately, my main partner enjoys the same process. However, most climbers who I know don’t really care much for it, and most just move on if it doesn’t go in two or three attempts. |
Daniel Joderwrote: Thanks for the fantastic trip report, replete with wonderful pictures! So sorry about the knee. Hope it heals. I have been to Montserrat once. It was great! I was there with my wife and two year old daughter, my parents, and another couple with their four year old son. Quite the crowd! My parents checked out the monastery while the rest of us looked for a crag that seemed like it would be a good choice for us. We looked around for a good half hour, i think we were in more or less the right location, but we never found it. So we kept walking along the trail, and eventually found an outcropping right off the trail with bolts in it. So we gave that a shot. Exactly the same kind of potatoes pictured in your shot. Here's me looking down from the top of one pitch:  And my wife getting started on another:  We wound up hiring a guide for a second day up in Montserrat that week, and he showed us around to some great crags. Here are a few other shots:   That's my daughter in the foreground, with the guide and the four year old friend on the wall (while parents belay and the other mom was above and out of the frame, being belayed by my wife). I have especially fond memories of this trip, as it was the last time my dad was well enough to travel. GO |
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GabeO, that’s wonderful that you had a good time at Montserrat. I recognize the places you climbed from your photos but for whatever reason I have yet to climb there…. But I have walked by dozens of times! If you or anyone else gets back here I’d be glad to give recommendations and directions if not actually get out and climb with you. |
Lori Milaswrote: I can't imagine trying a climb 100 times. There are some boulders at Josh and Stoney Point that I tried many times, but never without an occasional success. In other words they were hard enough to be hit or miss. But failing 100 times without ever once succeeding? That's just not in my DNA. There was a repeat of a .13a in Josh that took me a number of visits over the course of a season. Jan could tell you how many actual tries we made, we worked it together and both got it on the same day. But it was nowhere near 100 tries. Not even close. The result was that over a period of 35 years of consistent climbing at every opportunity, I was a solid 5.11 trad leader, did a good number of .12's without a lot of working, and ticked a few .13's. I was always aware that were I to dedicate myself to working hard sport routes or cutting edge trad I'd get some bigger numbers. But I just didn't find the repetition, especially top roping, as interesting as doing more variety in what I saw. at the time, as better style. I did work The Pirate at Suicide Rock on TR before I led it. I always regretted that, but that got started because when I first TR'd it I never thought one day I'd want to lead it. So, by the time I led it I knew exactly how the pro worked, etc. All of that previewing (maybe 10 tries on TR before getting the lead 2nd or third go) cost me some style points IMO, but sometimes you just have to take what you can get... But 100 tries? That's some serious obsession. |
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The most days I counted was 21 for my first 5.13a, but that was a first ascent and involved cleaning and bolting. I have definitely projected routes way longer than that. I mean, on my first 13d, again a first ascent, it look me eight days just to figure out the crux boulder problem at the top. I love the projecting process because it is all learning and no pressure, at least at first. Once you get close to the send the pressure really sets in. I have only failed (so far) on one route that I went “all in” on, a 5.14b. Definitely tried that at least 50 days over several years. I one hung it many times but just couldn’t put it together. I don’t regret the experience but realize it is not for everyone. |
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To much like work, actually trying that many times is like a steady job. If I had to struggle on something really hard on a top rope or as a second i just let it go and did something more fun. |
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I’ve heard 100 TRs on ICE before trying to lead. But a 100 reps on route does sound harsh |
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Today was first BLT day. There were a couple small tomatoes, but this was the first real beauty. Alas, I have no expectations of losing weight, so I just.....enjoyed. Got out for a hike in our foothills today. Have a not hot couple of days, so had to get out there. It's not been overly hot here, so far, but too toasty for outside in the afternoons. Still cooling off at night, and not hitting 100 repeatedly, yay. All the trips are past now, too. Just a September one ahead. So, it's hunker in and get things done here. H. |
Kristian Solemwrote: Style points. Hmmm.... Kris, you're stylin' whatever you do. I, on the other hand, could use some style. Maybe 100 is a little excessive. What I've been thinking is that early in the season I will go back to Dog Day Afternoon and spend a few hours trying it out. I think then I will know whether the whole thing is out of the question, or whether some specific gym work will help. A year ago I had such a wonderful experience finally sending Tiptoe to Topanga. I had been back to it 6 or 8 times, and each time it was just one move, one wobble, that kept me from sending it. I REALLY enjoyed the process of figuring out exactly where the trouble spots were, and getting through them. --- I've been listening to podcasts by Dr. Peter Atilla. Today I listened to part of Navigating Bone Health. For anyone interested... https://open.spotify.com/episode/1BobZ1e0m8FmLV8qWcnxRv?si=gkZJfi7IThmv3INBZXzAcA One thing caught my attention, that 'power lifting' has the most impact on bone density of any activity. Squats, Bench Press, Dead Lift. Helen... BLT sounds great. We've been eating tomatoes and apricots here. And chocolate... :-) |
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Daniel. so sorry you got hurt. Hopefully its not as bad as it sounded... Projecting... I don't have the patience or desire to project other peoples climbs. I am always afraid of hurting my shoulders if I pull too hard so I tend to save that for FA's Even then if it seems like I don't have a realistic chance of getting it clean without tweaking my shoulder I will let Isa have the FFA. Only twice have we completely given up on something I have bolted. Both of those climbs I hand drilled on lead using the full bag of tricks. One of them went clean as some kind of 12 and the other was one hung at 11d? but to my knowledge has not been freed? I offered it to Pete Kamitsas when he was still just a spurt climber. Before he cut off his dreads and got really bad assed. When I told him that it was a mixed route requiring some gear he lost interest... |
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Around here we are often trying to make the most of shade time. Projecting is time consuming. It’s nice though for a different flavor, number chasing and gaining fitness/technique. Also, some routes are just so much fun to attempt. |
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So when Kris and I worked on Games without Frontiers, we worked on it for 6 weekends in a row. There was no way to put more than 2 attempts per day into it since it tore your tips up so and we both sent on the 6th week. That is certainly the most I have ever worked on a route. At the same time, it was the hardest route I have ever done at 13b trad - and most likely harder at my height. Generally we would go climbing and might fall once or twice on a route before getting it. These days people would think that we didn't aim high enough, but back then it was about climbing routes, not about projecting routes in hopes of climbing them sometime. I'm pretty sure that Kris and I could have projected very hard 13 sport routes if that had been the route that we had pursued. Lori, if you look at trail running shoes, be careful of zero rise shoes because at our age they stretch your achilles tendon in ways that we aren't used to. Since I have size 7.5 EEEE feet, I buy what fits. For me, that is Asics street running shoes. If I had a choice I would buy trail runners for the better grip, but none fit my feet. |
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I haven't checked in for a while. It's been cold and rainy and horrible here. I've been out buying a whole heap of camping gear, fridge, solar panel, battery box etc etc, also a new rope and other climbing gear. I'm interested in the convo about projecting. I don't really project but I DO climb routes many times, esp on TR for training. I know in the past I've ben chastised for that, with someone telling me I would 'wear the rock out' (I must have very powerful hands). Anyway, if you look at the route 'Extra G' at Morialta (see link) I've done that route literally hundreds of times. I've led it once, and in one session climbed it 21 times and in another 22 times, with sets going up to a set of six or seven back to back. For me, that was great endurance training and I feel most people would find doing 22 laps of a grade 22 (5.11b) not particular easy. https://www.thecrag.com/en/climbing/australia/morialta/route/13537411 |
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Projecting climbs is a personal choice and is entirely dependent on what people want from their climbing. Coming from a famous sport climbing area I sometimes see people spend weeks working on hard climbs, but in the end they achieve something beautiful and awe inspiring that I could never do in a million tries. I don’t have that sort of patience but I admire those that do.  Kyle on To Bolt or not to Be 5.14a I stick with what I know and climb at a level that satisfies me on the style of climbs that I love trying to do as much of it that I can while I am able. Falling and hanging are not part of the process because I’m too old for it, and I already used up 8 of my 9 lives. >^..^<  Fossil on Titus 510- |
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Fossil—-you must’ve been good friends with John Gill and rGold back in the 1840s when they were just starting out. Nice picture though. You look good and strong. Carl, I was thinking about you today and figured it was about time for your annual depression. Sounds like you are dealing with it. You could always write us a depression poem. Jan, thanks for the words. As long as I explore here, I can only get a hint of what you all were up to bitd. I wonder if this area, Tahquitz and Yosemite were unique in how you approached climbing. I know it was becoming a worldwide thing but you also were a small enough gang with local ethics. I found that in the last year or so I am not all that anxious to explore every corner of Joshua Tree. There are thousands of rocks, but I would rather study just one for a while and then move on. The one area I most normally hike I have memorized. But every day there is something new. This morning I took a detour to take a close look at this rock. Tomorrow, I’ll look closer.  Watched All The Presidents Men tonight. Sort of timely for all the time I have spent at Watergate rock lately. |
