New and experienced climbers over 50 #37

Alan Rubinwrote:

Great to see all the Northeast 'representing' over the past few days!!!!
Rich Ross love those pictures of the 'forbidden Gunks'---the black and white photos just add to the 'mystique'.

As Ward posted, it has been a gorgeous day around here today---a rare summer treat in a season that has so far not featured much in the way of good climbing conditions. I got out to a new little crag a friend has been developing ( creating???) not far from home. In general, the routes have been pretty choosy--even under the strict definition of the term discussed the other day, but the routes today were definitely more solid and offered interesting climbing. Nothing big and didn't do that much, but it was still a wonderful day to be out playing with a couple of friends. Photo isn't good, but at least gives a sense of what we were up to,

Ah, that looks great, Alan!  Well done!

Chris Ducawrote:

Vermont granite is something else! 

Vermont granite? Where is this? This isn't Bolton, right?

Jim Uwrote:

the last sentence of my first response..... CBO vs SOT/OMB.

I absolutely don't want to see the national debt to sky rocket higher.  I also think we should be going full out slash and burn and on major portions of the bloat that is the federal gov (e.g. dept of ed amongst others gone - send the funds and authorities back to the states).  But at one point the uniparty is self perpetuating  is this a step in the right direction?  I hope so.

I really want to see weekly/monthly recession packets send from POTUS to congress.  pull all the bloat back...  maybe that will happen more now that SCOTUS has put the smack down on the random district judges trying to wade into things, with TROs, that they have zero jurisdiction.

Unfortunately neither party wants to tackle the deficit, which IMHO is only addressable by raising taxes (business, personal high income, social security), ending business exemptions, plus a major reduction in defense spending (not personnel, just the increasingly expensive equipment).  At the same time, pension benefits for federal elected individuals should be reduced along with salaries and the special healthcare plan for those officials should also be dropped.  Plus term limits and an end to Citizens United and PACS.

Jim U. I admit, maybe because I'm just a stupid 'pinko' or something, but I found your last 2 posts pretty incoherent, but I was able to decipher one point of actual agreement---neither 'side' will succeed in convincing the other.

Still, since, undoubtedly naively, I still believe that truth and actual facts matter, I want to make two points---as unlikely as it is that they will have any impact on you. First, I don't believe that any of us posting on these political topics from the 'left' of you ( pretty much all of us), believe that the 'Dems', Biden, etc. are always right and can 'do no wrong'. I surely don't believe that and have never said anything on which such an assumption can be based ( though believing that much of what Trump et al are doing is bad, well, yeah, that is correct---well, because...!!!).

As for Medicaid cuts. First, that there are 'millions' of lazy, non-working, able-bodied people on Medicaid is a myth---there are undoubtedly some, but not enough to make a real impact on the costs. However, the key point that is ignored by the 'cutters', is that having people---whether 'illegal immigrants', the elderly, the lazy, children, whomever--medically insured saves money in the long run. Unless you are advocating that the uninsured just be left to die, if they become ill, they will receive treatment, if they ignore minor ailments because they aren't insured, many will get worse and require more expensive interventions later, same if they don't receive regular 'wellness checkups'---someone will be (is) paying for such medical attention---and that 'someone' will be/is all of us. And without such payment, we will continue to lose medical facilities and professionals at an increasing rate. Medicaid --and Medicare and private insurance isn't perfect--far from it, and I'd love a better functioning healthcare system, but the current cuts are going in very much the wrong direction and, whether you believe it or not, there will in fact be major costs for all of us.

M Spraguewrote:

Yeah, I got one of those. The Administration seems to love putting those kind of things out. Usually some overtly political BS and badly written to boot like some 4th rate minded interns with no proper experience in their field got together maybe with the help of bad AI.. 

On the face of it, that particular one doesn't sound bad, with some tax relief for poor seniors mentioned, but the reality is that it will help upper middle class or higher people much more. Poor people already wouldn't have been paying that much and any savings are more than made up by losses elsewhere.

The SSA claims that it didn't come from them and they know nothing about it.

Jim Uwrote:

the last sentence of my first response..... CBO vs SOT/OMB.

I absolutely don't want to see the national debt to sky rocket higher.  I also think we should be going full out slash and burn and on major portions of the bloat that is the federal gov (e.g. dept of ed amongst others gone - send the funds and authorities back to the states).  But at one point the uniparty is self perpetuating  is this a step in the right direction?  I hope so.

I really want to see weekly/monthly recession packets send from POTUS to congress.  pull all the bloat back...  maybe that will happen more now that SCOTUS has put the smack down on the random district judges trying to wade into things, with TROs, that they have zero jurisdiction.

The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, which has a very large Republican membership, speaks very directly to the fact that the OBBB will have a dramatic impact on the federal deficit. In regards to the impacts on the deficit:

1. Adds $4.1 trillion to the debt through 2034 – more borrowing than any reconciliation bill in history. 

2. Would add $5.5 trillion to the debt if made permanent – more than the CARES Act, American Rescue Plan, Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, and the CHIPS and Science Act combined. 

3. Violates the House reconciliation framework by $600 billion – with only $1.4 trillion of gross spending cuts and $4.5 trillion of tax cuts.

Do you brag about your climbing past to the youngins?  I do.  Only because they enjoy my stories from the early 70s.  I was never a crusher, but I did learn to climb at Castle Rock in the Santa Cruz Mountains with a Stonemaster.  Back then, I just thought he was my friend's older brother who spent his summers in the Valley at Camp 4.  I never went there with him.  I was 12 to 14 years old. Imagine me hanging out with those guys at that age.  That could have been a bad idea.

Anyway, while sitting around the campfire with a few 20-somethings at Camp 4 recently, they asked about my climbing past.  I mentioned learning with a Stonemaster, and they were so stoked to be that close to climbing history.  So, I decided it's okay to "brag" to the younger crowd.  They love it.  They also love to hear about the gear we used in those days, like swami belts, etc.  BTW, the Stonemaster wasn't one of the more celebrated ones.  Did anyone here know Rik Rieder?  Or his brother Kurt?  I wish I could find them again, but no luck on the internet.

Ella and friend at our New Hampshire place.  No climbing today, but plenty of lawn mowing and swimming.

Charlie Kissickwrote:

Do you brag about your climbing past to the youngins?  I do.  Only because they enjoy my stories from the early 70s.  I was never a crusher, but I did learn to climb at Castle Rock in the Santa Cruz Mountains with a Stonemaster.  Back then, I just thought he was my friend's older brother who spent his summers in the Valley at Camp 4.  I never went there with him.  I was 12 to 14 years old. Imagine me hanging out with those guys at that age.  That could have been a bad idea.

Anyway, while sitting around the campfire with a few 20-somethings at Camp 4 recently, they asked about my climbing past.  I mentioned learning with a Stonemaster, and they were so stoked to be that close to climbing history.  So, I decided it's okay to "brag" to the younger crowd.  They love it.  They also love to hear about the gear we used in those days, like swami belts, etc.  BTW, the Stonemaster wasn't one of the more celebrated ones.  Did anyone here know Rik Rieder?  Or his brother Kurt?  I wish I could find them again, but no luck on the internet.

Rik Rieder suffered a severe skull fracture on a 1975 attempt on the PO Wall---hit by a falling rock I think.  Dunno how he fared after that.

Alan Rubinwrote:

Jim U. I admit, maybe because I'm just a stupid 'pinko' or something, but I found your last 2 posts pretty incoherent, but I was able to decipher one point of actual agreement---neither 'side' will succeed in convincing the other.

Still, since, undoubtedly naively, I still believe that truth and actual facts matter, I want to make two points---as unlikely as it is that they will have any impact on you. First, I don't believe that any of us posting on these political topics from the 'left' of you ( pretty much all of us), believe that the 'Dems', Biden, etc. are always right and can 'do no wrong'. I surely don't believe that and have never said anything on which such an assumption can be based ( though believing that much of what Trump et al are doing is bad, well, yeah, that is correct---well, because...!!!).

As for Medicaid cuts. First, that there are 'millions' of lazy, non-working, able-bodied people on Medicaid is a myth---there are undoubtedly some, but not enough to make a real impact on the costs. However, the key point that is ignored by the 'cutters', is that having people---whether 'illegal immigrants', the elderly, the lazy, children, whomever--medically insured saves money in the long run. Unless you are advocating that the uninsured just be left to die, if they become ill, they will receive treatment, if they ignore minor ailments because they aren't insured, many will get worse and require more expensive interventions later, same if they don't receive regular 'wellness checkups'---someone will be (is) paying for such medical attention---and that 'someone' will be/is all of us. And without such payment, we will continue to lose medical facilities and professionals at an increasing rate. Medicaid --and Medicare and private insurance isn't perfect--far from it, and I'd love a better functioning healthcare system, but the current cuts are going in very much the wrong direction and, whether you believe it or not, there will in fact be major costs for all of us.

Around 41% of US children are covered by Medicaid or ChiP. Ensuring children are healthy, fed and educated is more than a moral issue. It's an investment in the future of the country. What's curious though is the people who hate this the most aren't the ones paying for it. The overwhelming majority of federal taxes are paid by blue states and blue cities in red states and we're fine with those taxes being used for this purpose.

Charlie, I can put you in touch with Rik. Our mutual friend, Mark Rodell lives in Redding and keeps in contact with him on Facebook.

If a Facebook search doesn't work for you, I can message you after talking to Mark.

rgoldwrote:

Rik Rieder suffered a severe skull fracture on a 1975 attempt on the PO Wall---hit by a falling rock I think.  Dunno how he fared after that.

He recovered. He came home with a shaved head and a gash down the middle of his head from front to back. He said he reached up to a flake that broke off. He fell, then the flake hit him. He was out of commission for quite a while. He looked pretty funny with a crew cut after having his long blond hippy hair. He wanted to bring me and Kurt up to camp 4 but that’s why it never happened. Kurt went later. 

john baldwrote:

Charlie, I can put you in touch with Rik. Our mutual friend, Mark Rodell lives in Redding and keeps in contact with him on Facebook.

If a Facebook search doesn't work for you, I can message you after talking to Mark.

Thanks. I wonder if he still climbs. I could use an older partner. 

That Vermont granite looks like Black Mountain. 

While the world was going to hell in a handbasket, we went climbing today. We got back on Yum Yum Yab Yum. I led P2. It took me a while, but my excuse is that it's a good 120 ft. It was a bit of a (mostly mental) challenge, but I got it.

Here's Bill coming up to the anchor, and my guess as to what he was thinking:

Blueberries are starting to appear on the cliffs. Maybe this is the "yum yum" part of the name?
Bill decided to lead the 5.1 variation under the roof, off left. This is quite fun, except for the bird poop, and right up until you get to a tree with an anchor and discover you have to climb a large boulder that you are not capable of doing. Fortunately-ish, you can get a boost up from a pine tree that is currently oozing sap. A dirty ending to a fun route!

dragonswrote:

Bill decided to lead the 5.1 variation under the roof, off left. This is quite fun, except for the bird poop, and right up until you get to a tree with an anchor and discover you have to climb a large boulder that you are not capable of doing. Fortunately-ish, you can get a boost up from a pine tree that is currently oozing sap. A dirty ending to a fun route!

Looks like fun! Except for the poop of course. One of my most memorable climbing experiences came on a route called Blue Chock here in NC. There's a rightward traverse near the end which finishes with an overhang/corner that protects with a small nut. I get there but don't have the right size. The moves are 5.9ish and well within my range so I go for it anyway. After I'm irreversibly committed I discover an owl with bowel issues has apparently been hanging out up there and all the key holds are smeared with owl shit with little bits of fur, feather and bones mixed in. I'm both terrified and disgusted at the same time but manage to pull through OK. Have never had a desire to repeat this line even though it's considered a classic.

Blue berries on the cliff slow down my leading significantly. I brought some friends out to mtwishicouldtellya yesterday. The vegatation is flourishing but we got some good climbing in.

Hey Nick, you must've been further south than we were because the blueberries were not ripe yet

I think it’s mean to deliberately antagonize people who clearly disagree with one. What kind of fear drives this behavior?

philip bonewrote:

I think it’s mean to deliberately antagonize people who clearly disagree with one. What kind of fear drives this behavior?

Eric Hoffer, The True Believer. Eric Fromm, Escape from Freedom. 

Hoffer and Fromm discuss that question.