New and experienced climbers over 50 #37

Alan Rubinwrote:

WF, Yes, in Article 1, Section 8. However, 'militia' , then and now ( National Guard) has been considered to primarily be a State responsibility, with 'Federalization' being for only very limited circumstances--hence the on-going litigation with California concerning Trump's use of the N.G. in LA. Under the original post-Revolution Articles of Confederation and even after the ratification of the Constitution, as a matter of policy , the US only had a very small standing Regular Army ( and Navy), except during wartime, with the State militias expected to be available for any crises. Even during the Civil War, on both sides, most of the active military units were effectively State organizations under temporary central government control. In fact, this was basically the state of affairs until the middle of the Twentieth Century. However, 'unofficial militias' , generally ( unless used by powerful corporations!!!) were considered to be illegal and suppressed ( often by the official State militia). For some of the historical, pre-Constitution background, look up Shay's Rebellion---which was centered just a few miles from where I now live.

However, one of the 'ignored' parts of the 2nd Amendment ( and the Amendment is only 3 clauses long!!!) says that the 'well-regulated militia' is necessary to ensure the "security of the free state"---not to protect citizens against the power of the state. The Constitution ( including the subsequently enacted Bill of Rights) was meant to establish a viable and stable state, not one that was created to 'self-destruct'.

End of historical ramble!!!! Too hot for me to climb so this is what you get!!!!

No, that's great, thanks! I've wondered about that aspect of the 2nd amendment; it doesn't get mentioned in conversations about gun control. Yes, Shays' Rebellion, an interesting bit of history.  

This is a very good podcast that explores the role of militias in England, how this impacted the Constitution and the role of militias and military in the America, and how the Second Amendment has 'evolved' in its 'modern' interpretation.

If you haven't listened the Constitutional podcast, it's a very strong recommend. Very concise, objective description of the origins of all of the aspects of the Constitution, and provides great insight into how America has developed to where it is today.

Jim Uwrote:

Wendy - agreed! sevierville (aka suh-veer-vul" the local pronunciation. kind of like my birthplace Worcester MA is pronounced Woostah...Lol). has the same demographic. it's a huge tourist and hospitality area with almost constant construction. Vast majority as you state, working their collective asses off, as your and my grandparents did. Compared to the % sitting in the Roosevelt hotel in NYC ( used as an illustrative example) or the birth tourist aspect that also gets exploited.. the legality of this will continue to get argued. legal immigrants, come on in, but kind of like house guests keep your feet off the furniture, pick up after yourself, and don't immediate ask what's for dinner.

I was too busy earlier with other stuff to respond but here's a more detailed answer. As Alan said I doubt it will change your mind but others may find it informative.

It sounds like you agree the US needs immigrants as part of our workforce. But you don't like it when they're undocumented. That's fine but an inescapable feature of capitalism is when demand for something exists supply will follow. From that it sounds like your real objection is to US immigration policy which doesn't allow for enough legal immigrants to supply workforce needs. And you're not alone. There have been many attempts over the years to fix US policy. The last such effort was bipartisan and came during the Biden administration. It seemed set for passage until Trump blew it up by telling R members of Congress to tank it. He wanted to use it as a wedge issue in the campaign and did so successfully.

But immigration policy is hard because it's so tied up with racism and grievance. For much of US history immigration laws were explicitly racist. Asians were a common target. The US imported Asian laborers to help build out the West but banned them from becoming naturalized citizens. The last such laws were only repealed 9 years before I was born. The children of these Asians were citizens though because of the 14th Amendment which was settled by the Supreme Court case of Wong Kim Ark mentioned earlier.

It would be great if racism didn't still play a role but unfortunately it does. The clearest example of this is the different treatment accorded to white South African refugees compared with Afghans. And unlike what you implied earlier it doesn't matter if someone has done everything legally. The Trump administration has detained and marked for deportation former members of the Afghan military who were here legally and have broken no laws. They face torture and death if returned to Afghanistan because they helped US troops.

Finally as to resources used -- California, that Trump is going after so hard is the largest donor state in the US. It paid $80 billion more in federal taxes than it got back. Those immigrants in California are helping subsidize a lot of folks in red states like West Virginia, Kentucky, Alabama, Mississippi, Alaska, etc. And yeah that's a general feature of the US. While there are exceptions blue states for the most part subsidize red states. Even within red states the blue cities subsidize red rural areas. 

and now speaking of Militias we have private contractors (Blackwater, etc) working for the govt to provide the goon squads that are running around terrorizing brown people with no due process and no accountability. some of the private bounty hunters have said that they get paid 1k to 1.5k per person they bring in.  

Emil Briggswrote:

I was too busy earlier with other stuff to respond but here's a more detailed answer. As Alan said I doubt it will change your mind but others may find it informative.

It sounds like you agree the US needs immigrants as part of our workforce. But you don't like it when they're undocumented. That's fine but an inescapable feature of capitalism is when demand for something exists supply will follow. From that it sounds like your real objection is to US immigration policy which doesn't allow for enough legal immigrants to supply workforce needs. And you're not alone. There have been many attempts over the years to fix US policy. The last such effort was bipartisan and came during the Biden administration. It seemed set for passage until Trump blew it up by telling R members of Congress to tank it. He wanted to use it as a wedge issue in the campaign and did so successfully.

But immigration policy is hard because it's so tied up with racism and grievance. For much of US history immigration laws were explicitly racist. Asians were a common target. The US imported Asian laborers to help build out the West but banned them from becoming naturalized citizens. The last such laws were only repealed 9 years before I was born. The children of these Asians were citizens though because of the 14th Amendment which was settled by the Supreme Court case of Wong Kim Ark mentioned earlier.

It would be great if racism didn't still play a role but unfortunately it does. The clearest example of this is the different treatment accorded to white South African refugees compared with Afghans. And unlike what you implied earlier it doesn't matter if someone has done everything legally. The Trump administration has detained and marked for deportation former members of the Afghan military who were here legally and have broken no laws. They face torture and death if returned to Afghanistan because they helped US troops.

Finally as to resources used -- California, that Trump is going after so hard is the largest donor state in the US. It paid $80 billion more in federal taxes than it got back. Those immigrants in California are helping subsidize a lot of folks in red states like West Virginia, Kentucky, Alabama, Mississippi, Alaska, etc. And yeah that's a general feature of the US. While there are exceptions blue states for the most part subsidize red states. Even within red states the blue cities subsidize red rural areas.

we agree more than we don't...

My view on jurisdiction ( i.e. the political aspect not the criminal) more succinctly written than my non-lawyer self will ever do.  https://www.federalistblog.us/2007/09/revisiting_subject_to_the_jurisdiction/)  wong kim ark - is a precedent yup.... and so wasn't Plessy v Ferguson and roe v wade until they weren't.  POTUS signed the EO if nothing else to force the issue to SCOTUS knowing that is where it will get resolved.

I don't really relish the "who will pick our apples" arguments either, those all seem a wee bit racist to me.  If you're coming here to assimilate into our western culture and contribute to the greater good of society awesome... I think JFK said something about "ask not what your country can do for you....."???  

the Biden admin bill that trump helped tank.... it was riddled with some any poison pills he was right now to support.  The fact that the southern border crossings are practically negligible without any new legislation proved we did need more laws just a new president to enforce the laws already there...

the Afghans vs south Afrikaans - I've got 18 months in that country understand the cultural aspects brutally well. the pull out was a complete debacle... Scott Mann the guy who ran Operation Pineapple... I know him personally, we were in 7th SF together he was the GRP S-3 when I was S-6. the vetting of who was actually getting on those planes the last couple of days is anything but clean. not every afghan that got onto those planes were interrupters and former ANA so for some to get yanked back totally believe it.... but from a cultural aspect the Afrikaans are an easier fit into our western culture than most of who is coming out of Africa and asia... just look at what UK, EU or Scandinavia is dealing with. is that the media enhancing the worse parts of unlimited mass migration? maybe.... but the changing political forces in italy, germany, Holland, and UK...maybe not.

CA is contributing more than it got back????  so is that why everyone is fleeing and the budget is tanking?

Jim, discussing facts with you is exhausting. First you claimed that the United States is the only country with birthright citizenship. Then, when Emil gave you about 40 countries with absolute birthright citizenship, you changed your argument that these are only the undesirable countries. I then provided you with an example of over a dozen highly developed countries with qualified birthright citizenship, and you responded that there is “no disagreement.“

For the record, despite your arguments, even though California’s population decreased slightly during the pandemic. It has been steadily growing since 2022 and is now up to 39.5 million. California takes in $163 billion annually in federal revenue. It contributes $692 billion to the federal budget.

Jim Uwrote:

.. but from a cultural aspect the Afrikaans are an easier fit into our western culture than most of who is coming out of Africa and asia... 

Wow! 

Sounds like not so thinly veiled cultural hostility, which is not dissimilar to discriminatory and harmful practices based upon race. 

It is my experience that immigrants enrich our culture.

I’m not quite sure whose house this is. Please forgive my poor manners. I assumed that I was one of you. Knowing some of the terms, some of the trails. 

Jim Uwrote:

 but from a cultural aspect the Afrikaans are an easier fit into our western culture than most of who is coming out of Africa and asia... 

The Afrikaaners whose most significant contribution to western culture was Apartheid?

Whatever happened to E pluribus unum ?

(Jim, I’m interested to know where you get your information about the UK from. As I’m sure you know it’s possible to paint a very different picture if you start with a different perspective).  

Nick on Brazen Buttress (E2; 5.10d), south Pembroke. Burly climbing on steep but highly featured limestone.

Iain on Barad (E1; 5.10b) in north Pembroke. He’s heading up and rightwards to the notch in the skyline, intricate climbing on lovely rough gabbro. 

Climbing in Pembroke has obstacles: many routes need you to factor in tides and sea-states, some areas have voluntary bans during bird-nesting season, others on army firing ranges have very non-voluntary bans midweek for much of the year, the weather is highly changeable. Despite all this, it's a thoroughly recommend area: all trad. from 5.6 and up, nearly always well-protected, climbable 8-9 months of the year, and a lot of fun. 

Several thousand posts ago, on the topic of training, Kris said that his wife competitively lifts and he does Pilates and yoga.  I’ve been looking for a way to do both, but kind of dropped the ball on the weightlifting. Today, I swung by my latest route and kept wondering how I could make it easier. Now I understand the problem – – I need way more flexibility to stem like this.

Bob has often said there’s three ways to get better at climbing: get stronger, get lighter, get more flexibility. God dang he’s right again.

I hope Kris will post the picture I requested of Ankles Away. Finally I’m seeing that flexibility he talks about.  So especially for stemming I can see the need for strong hips, glutes to control the climb up. It’s not only about strength.

I’ve never known a sport where it was all about “e”, all of the above. It seems there’s no body part that can be weak no system that doesn’t have to be full of life force. What an incredible sport we’ve chosen!

Lori Milaswrote:

Bob has often said there’s three ways to get better at climbing: get stronger, get lighter, get more flexibility. God dang he’s right again.

I completely agree with the three that you listed but he must have also mentioned technique/balance/body position with improved footwork as those are some of the best ways to get better at climbing!

Buck Rogerswrote:

I completely agree with the three that you listed but he must have also mentioned technique/balance/body position with improved footwork as those are one of the best ways to get better at climbing!

He has mentioned that a time or two.   

I guess I’m focused on how to get my body to a new starting line.  That little new route of mine was so inspiring, but I couldn’t tell what made it so difficult and now I think it was just that I had to contort a bit to plant my legs on each wall, it hurt my hips. And for me, that’s an easy fix. I just had to see it.

Likewise, if you can’t place your toe on an intended spot because it’s too much of a reach that’s a whole new problem. So I’ve been thinking hangs and leg presses, but leaving out some important prerequisites to climbing hard in September.  

Looking forward to more stretching sessions and Pilates this month. It would be so cool to return to a stemming route and be able to straighten up while climbing. 

Jim U…….. welcome!

Duncan …. Thank you for climbing content.

I got out for a few days of camping, swimming, cooking over the fire and a bit of climbing to mark the start of the hot times

Randywrote:

Wow! 

Sounds like not so thinly veiled cultural hostility, which is not dissimilar to discriminatory and harmful practices based upon race. 

It is my experience that immigrants enrich our culture.

No need to beat around the bush. It's 100% based on race. Trumps chief of staff Stephen Miller has been beating the white nationalist drum for years. Not shy about it at all. But here's the thing. In 1980 the percentage of school age children who were white was 82%. Today it's 45. Trying to turn America back into a white country will fail but the attempt will cause immense harm to everyone.

I watch FOX news once in a while just to see what they are pushing. CA residents moving to other states was something they pushed for a long time, so long in fact that you might start believing that half the state moved to Texas! Recently they were doing 24/7 coverage on the recent ICE raids in CA, they were trying to convince the yokels that the evil liberals were attempting to start some kind of a war all while burning down LA. 

As much as I appreciate Orwells writing,  it has become some sort of political playbook that unfortunately works all too well. Hopefully there is a ladder at the bottom is all we can wish for, I don't want my kid to become a slave to the billionaires. Unfortunately I already have a relative doing just that, the thought of unionization has pretty much been wiped from the minds of the youth and this is definitely a two party problem and can't be blamed on the orange golfer man.

Frank Steinwrote:

Jim, discussing facts with you is exhausting. First you claimed that the United States is the only country with birthright citizenship. Then, when Emil gave you about 40 countries with absolute birthright citizenship, you changed your argument that these are only the undesirable countries. I then provided you with an example of over a dozen highly developed countries with qualified birthright citizenship, and you responded that there is “no disagreement.“

For the record, despite your arguments, even though California’s population decreased slightly during the pandemic. It has been steadily growing since 2022 and is now up to 39.5 million. California takes in $163 billion annually in federal revenue. It contributes $692 billion to the federal budget.

if your exhausted maybe you need to do more cardio then...  CA is perfect and a shining beacon of budgetary restraint and everything the rest of the country should hope to emulate... got it.  check. two thumbs up...  I wrote how many paragraphs and all you can do is defend CA?

Duncan -E Pluribus Unum - tracking...so why were the LA riots awash in mexican flags?  how is that blending into the melting pot?  I listed UK, EU and Scandinavian.  All of which have accepted mass migration and are currently dealing with things like (in no particular order)  gov't coverup of a grooming gang scandal, the rise of nationalist parties in  UK, Germany, Italy, Holland, france, police no-go areas, a massive rise in sexual assault.  why is that?   maybe complete lack of shared values and norms?  please explain it to me

Randy - Diversity is a our strength also got it...intersectionality is the word of the day. everyone gets a hyphen sometimes more than one. kind of goes exactly against what Duncan is espousing and exactly what EU is dealing with as I listed above.

afrikkans vs afghans vs and racist undertones - I actually ran into a guy from south africa climbing on sunday.. he was impressed I recognized his accent. asked him about this exact issue. he didn't think it was as much of a big deal as media was/is portraying. probably true. additionally I read that many the refugees actually wanted to go back to holland vs USbased on closer ancestry. But it's still culturally an easier fit and assimilation. If you can't acknowledge that basic cultural difference you're turning a blind eye to things like :honor killings, female genital mutilation, oppression of women, sexual abuse of children, child marriages, slavery. the list goes on... I served in a couple units that the moto was "free the oppressed".... all that bad shit happens all the time Afghanistan and all of the countries it borders. that's not racist that just actual facts and experience.

But hey y'all do you.  the waves of people that DO NOT agree with you grow, and in demographic segments that you probably don't want to acknowledge.  I'm just one guy willing to respond and return fire

M Mwrote:

I watch FOX news once in a while just to see what they are pushing. CA residents moving to other states was something they pushed for a long time, so long in fact that you might start believing that half the state moved to Texas! Recently they were doing 24/7 coverage on the recent ICE raids in CA, they were trying to convince the yokels that the evil liberals were attempting to start some kind of a war all while burning down LA. 

As much as I appreciate Orwells writing,  it has become some sort of political playbook that unfortunately works all too well. Hopefully there is a ladder at the bottom is all we can wish for, I don't want my kid to become a slave to the billionaires. Unfortunately I already have a relative doing just that, the thought of unionization has pretty much been wiped from the minds of the youth and this is definitely a two party problem and can't be blamed on the orange golfer man.

I've read a lot of dystopian novels many times, but 1984 only once.  Really a disturbing book that everyone should read once, and only once for me.  My 13 year old daughter is into the Hunger Games, and I'm reading it again and enjoying it.  That series, and Fahrenheit 451 (which I love and have read many times), at least have a somewhat hopeful ending.   1984 not so much: "‘If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – for ever." 

 

Jim Uwrote:

 I'm just one guy willing to respond and return fire

Yawn, more likely to go off half cocked.