New and experienced climbers over 50 #37

Bob Gaineswrote:

Senator Mike Lee has withdrawn his provision in the Senate‘s Big Beautiful Bill to sell off public lands:

Can we now hope that Mike Lee withdraws himself from Congress?

Lori Milaswrote:

, Torturers Apprentice

Sounds like he musta been climbing with Mike Waugh.

Lori Milaswrote:

And the weird time warp moving forward and back here in Josh.  Seeing packs of young people marching by with crash pads on their backs… who don’t know and don’t care what was in a different time zone.  There is a different vibe here today… absolutely perfect.  

Bouldering was always a big part to the Josh scene, even from its earliest days. Bouldering pads came about later, but many of the classic problems predate this innovation. You just needed a good spotter and/or the ability to land well. 

Nothing stays static; the cutting edge shifts ever upward, the focus of newer climbers is different, and the mainstreaming of climbing has changed the tolerance for risk.

Another glimpse of the climbing world as it once was. During Edwardian times rgold and I were innovative pioneers. Here I watch as Rich attempts to inch his way to the top of the boulder in a unique fashion, disregarding my concerns about his mental health.

John Gillwrote:

Another glimpse of the climbing world as it once was. During Edwardian times rgold and I were innovative pioneers. Here I watch as Rich attempts to inch his way to the top of the boulder in a unique fashion, disregarding my concerns about his mental health.

We always suspected… 

Waterfall: Howard B. 

Emil Briggswrote:

Actually I can name over 30 countries that do it. Look it up if you don't believe me. Some of them include.

Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Barbados, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Canada, Chad, Chile, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominica, Ecuador, El Salvador, Fiji, Grenada, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Jamaica, Lesotho, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Trinidad and Tobago, Tuvalu, United States, Uruguay, and Venezuela.

 Edit to add references:
World population review

Wikipedia

funny how more than half though countries are all high on the % of immigrants in the past caravans during Biden admin..... why is that?  Do you think any of those listed countries also have a thriving birth tourist problem?

ultimately yah we are a nation of immigrrants.  you want to migrant here awesome!  welcome! Do it legally  there's lots of work to do, don't expect hands-outs.  expect to work hard like the rest of us.  no free housing, no free phones, no free welfare.... earn it.  Given some of the polls I've seen on CNN of all places, y'all are on the wrong side of this even amongst recently legal immigrants.  but you know get down with your bad selfs.  

Alan Rubinwrote:

As far as the US being the only country with birthright citizenship, I don't know nor care. If it is, I'm glad to live in a country with that being one of it's unique features.

As for the 14th Amendment, you have illustrated on here multiple times that you don't even understand the basics, such as the meaning of jurisdiction, so your opinion as to it's original intent holds little weight.

But if you want to consider an Amendment that has been "exploited way past it's original intent", try the 2nd---"A well-regulated militia....".

dude please!   you are abbreviating something to try and back a point that fails miserably......
next you're gonna tell me that 2A is about hunting or only applies to muskets...... put some Bruen and Heller in you pipe and take a deep inhale.

AN ACTUAL CLIMBING QUESTION FOR EMIL - is the BRP over to ship rock actually closed????  bad enough road up to table is still closed....I ain't walking from the exit on BRP to ship....

Jim U, I don't know what life's like in Suh-veer-vul, TN, but here in Boulder County we've got a lot of Mexican-Americans. They keep the place running -- restaurant kitchens, hotels, housecleaning, yard work, road repairs, painting -- pretty much everything that nobody else wants to do. And they'll tell you with pride how well their children are doing in school. Much like my immigrant grandparents, they want a better life for their kids.

Jim, I don't want to get into a lengthy ( and undoubtedly futile) debate with you on a non-climbing topic, but I am certain that I do know a great deal more about the history of the 2nd Amendment than you do---it was the topic of my law school thesis-equivalent. In the context of parts of the Constitution being 'exploited beyond original intent' , I was just pointing out that 'the well-regulated militia' part of that Amendment seems to have totally been ignored by SCOTUS in and since Heller ( especially, but not only, the 'well-regulated' bit---basic rule of statutory interpretation is that the Courts must consider and give equal weight to all words and phrases) and then there is the meaning of 'the people' --is it individual or collective? And, yes, I am aware that in the 18th Century, individual firearm ownership was largely universal.

Jim Uwrote:

AN ACTUAL CLIMBING QUESTION FOR EMIL - is the BRP over to ship rock actually closed????  bad enough road up to table is still closed....I ain't walking from the exit on BRP to ship....

As far as I know it's open between Blowing Rock and Beacon Heights but there are sections of the Parkway closed both N and S so you just have to pick the right path to get there. Weather has been pretty iffy lately though with lots of storms but I think it's supposed to be more stable next week.

There is more I could say on immigration but I'll save it for another time.

Someone once said good writing is clear thinking made visible. This is why I appreciate Alan’s posts so much. I’ll leave it at that.

A quick point about birthright citizenship. Emil listed only the 40 or so countries where birthright citizenship is tied solely to the land. The more nuanced and accurate picture is that almost every single EU country ( not exactly shithole countries ( Jim U’s concern)) has birthright citizenship when tied to residency. Basically, the child needs to have (in most cases) resided in the country of birth for 5 to 10 years and still be a resident when they turn 18.  These countries certainly don’t go out of their way to deport these children. 

John Gillwrote:

Another glimpse of the climbing world as it once was. During Edwardian times rgold and I were innovative pioneers. Here I watch as Rich attempts to inch his way to the top of the boulder in a unique fashion, disregarding my concerns about his mental health.

Modern offwidth climbers like to think they invented the invert... 

...but as John's picture shows, I was doing them back when those offwidths were tiny tips cracks.  Note also the strategically placed crash-boulder in John's picture. Materials for pads didn't exist yet, so we had to soften the landing zone with rocks.  These crash-boulders were essential because, as the photo clearly shows, spotting techniques in those days were rudimentary.

I should note that people like me, who were centuries ahead of our time, were often viewed as mentally challenged; this is a cross that pioneers through the ages have had to bear.

Oh and this just in: my Exxon-Mobil credit card account has just informed me that I have no balance.  This just seems like rubbing it in.

KRIS:  do you happen to have a copy of Ankles Away from your guidebook of the Needles that you could share here? 

There I was at the gym this morning, browsing through your book and found all the inspiration I needed to lift a little harder and go a little faster.  

I’m living vicariously.    

Frank Steinwrote:

A quick point about birthright citizenship. Emil listed only the 40 or so countries where birthright citizenship is tied solely to the land. The more nuanced and accurate picture is that almost every single EU country ( not exactly shithole countries ( Jim U’s concern)) has birthright citizenship when tied to residency. Basically, the child needs to have (in most cases) resided in the country of birth for 5 to 10 years and still be a resident when they turn 18.  These countries certainly don’t go out of their way to deport these children. 

An interesting split between most of the countries in the Americas where it's tied to the land and the EU where it's tied to residency. As for shithole countries I wouldn't put Canada in that category and I'm not even sure if Jim would. Yet Canada has much higher per capita immigration than the US (even including undocumented in the US total).

Alan Rubinwrote:

Jim, I don't want to get into a lengthy ( and undoubtedly futile) debate with you on a non-climbing topic, but I am certain that I do know a great deal more about the history of the 2nd Amendment than you do---it was the topic of my law school thesis-equivalent. In the context of parts of the Constitution being 'exploited beyond original intent' , I was just pointing out that 'the well-regulated militia' part of that Amendment seems to have totally been ignored by SCOTUS in and since Heller ( especially, but not only, the 'well-regulated' bit---basic rule of statutory interpretation is that the Courts must consider and give equal weight to all words and phrases) and then there is the meaning of 'the people' --is it individual or collective? And, yes, I am aware that in the 18th Century, individual firearm ownership was largely universal.

Mah dude...dare I say counselor...you kill your entire argument/statement when you start with a fallacy... - argument from authority...

Wendy - agreed! sevierville (aka suh-veer-vul" the local pronunciation. kind of like my birthplace Worcester MA is pronounced Woostah...Lol). has the same demographic. it's a huge tourist and hospitality area with almost constant construction. Vast majority as you state, working their collective asses off, as your and my grandparents did. Compared to the % sitting in the Roosevelt hotel in NYC ( used as an illustrative example) or the birth tourist aspect that also gets exploited.. the legality of this will continue to get argued. legal immigrants, come on in, but kind of like house guests keep your feet off the furniture, pick up after yourself, and don't immediate ask what's for dinner.

Emil and Frank - no real disagreement.  my opinion already stated above.   levels of agreement will vary... and as someone once said elections have consequences. 

Jim U, coincidentally there's an article about the Roosevelt Hotel in today's NYT. There will always be some people who take advantage of government programs, but it sounds like this one helped a lot of immigrants with legitimate needs get started. Too often complicated problems get oversimplified and used to score political points, as happened in Aurora, CO.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/30/nyregion/roosevelt-hotel-migrant-shelter-closed.html?unlocked_article_code=1.S08.ROTL.lSu7pFSY5Fmg&smid=url-share

wendy weisswrote:

Jim U, I don't know what life's like in Suh-veer-vul, TN, but here in Boulder County we've got a lot of Mexican-Americans. They keep the place running -- restaurant kitchens, hotels, housecleaning, yard work, road repairs, painting -- pretty much everything that nobody else wants to do. And they'll tell you with pride how well their children are doing in school. Much like my immigrant grandparents, they want a better life for their kids.

Boy, no kidding. If that population wasn't in CO - I'm in Fort Collins - the state wouldn't function. 

Alan Rubinwrote:

Jim, I don't want to get into a lengthy ( and undoubtedly futile) debate with you on a non-climbing topic, but I am certain that I do know a great deal more about the history of the 2nd Amendment than you do---it was the topic of my law school thesis-equivalent. In the context of parts of the Constitution being 'exploited beyond original intent' , I was just pointing out that 'the well-regulated militia' part of that Amendment seems to have totally been ignored by SCOTUS in and since Heller ( especially, but not only, the 'well-regulated' bit---basic rule of statutory interpretation is that the Courts must consider and give equal weight to all words and phrases) and then there is the meaning of 'the people' --is it individual or collective? And, yes, I am aware that in the 18th Century, individual firearm ownership was largely universal.

Alan, I'm curious. I'm not where I can check, but isn't there something in the Constitution stating that it's the government's responsibility to arm and organize the militia? Not starting, just wanted your input on that. 

WF WF51wrote:

Alan, I'm curious. I'm not where I can check, but isn't there something in the Constitution stating that it's the government's responsibility to arm and organize the militia? Not starting, just wanted your input on that. 

WF, Yes, in Article 1, Section 8. However, 'militia' , then and now ( National Guard) has been considered to primarily be a State responsibility, with 'Federalization' being for only very limited circumstances--hence the on-going litigation with California concerning Trump's use of the N.G. in LA. Under the original post-Revolution Articles of Confederation and even after the ratification of the Constitution, as a matter of policy , the US only had a very small standing Regular Army ( and Navy), except during wartime, with the State militias expected to be available for any crises. Even during the Civil War, on both sides, most of the active military units were effectively State organizations under temporary central government control. In fact, this was basically the state of affairs until the middle of the Twentieth Century. However, 'unofficial militias' , generally ( unless used by powerful corporations!!!) were considered to be illegal and suppressed ( often by the official State militia). For some of the historical, pre-Constitution background, look up Shay's Rebellion---which was centered just a few miles from where I now live.

However, one of the 'ignored' parts of the 2nd Amendment ( and the Amendment is only 3 clauses long!!!) says that the 'well-regulated militia' is necessary to ensure the "security of the free state"---not to protect citizens against the power of the state. The Constitution ( including the subsequently enacted Bill of Rights) was meant to establish a viable and stable state, not one that was created to 'self-destruct'.

End of historical ramble!!!! Too hot for me to climb so this is what you get!!!!