New and experienced climbers over 50 #37

I’ve been thinking about the upcoming climbing season and figuring out what inspires me.  I’ve been drawn to Charles Cole. I had so much fun tackling the routes associated with Dave Houser, one by one. I think Charles’ routes could be next.   

I think I have seen one picture of Cole from behind making his way up mission impossible. Does anyone have any recollections or pictures of Charles?  Since he has passed, obviously I won’t get to talk to him.

This afternoon, I will print out the list of his routes and maybe try to prioritize them according to my skill level. This morning, I plan to hike back to trespassers wall and have a look at.Gun Shy.  Most are well above my pay grade at the moment, but maybe not forever.

—

If I could be anyone’s groupie, it would be Tony Yaniro. I’m still trying to figure out the Social order here. John Bachar was here but who did he hang out with if anyone? I see routes by Tony Yaniro and Randy Leavitt.  So were they off doing their own thing?

Lori, I think it’s great how you are approaching the history and cast of characters at Jtree, don’t forget Gram Parsons and such for a well rounded perspective. 

Randywrote:

Of course, Alan is absolutely correct. 

Those with a contrary "opinion" would do well to read the 1898 Supreme Court case, United States v. Wong Kim Ark, which affirmed that anyone born in the United States, regardless of their parents' citizenship or immigration status, is a U.S. citizen. This ruling, based on the 14th Amendment's Citizenship Clause, effectively established birthright citizenship.

But, as we have learned, to our sad chagrin, long established legal precedent means little to the majority on current high court.

Jim's definition of jurisdiction is laughable but it's worth noting even this SCOTUS didn't try to redefine it. The word is used in many laws and changing the definition would have large and unintended consequences. That's not to say they won't try to go there eventually but they punted this time. What they did instead was give the executive branch a license to violate the constitution in states with friendly district courts.

Oh, man! It couldn’t be more beautiful back here. It’s the most perfect warm breeze and stunning quiet.  Me and Charles. I think we’re going to be a thing.   

This route, Gun Shy, I think it has possibilities. Most importantly, I see a way off the ground and up at least the first 20 feet.  It’s well bolted. I don’t know what pushes it into the 11b category but maybe I will find out.

It’s crazy to think that this gorgeous place was once alive with climbers pushing their own limits and they must’ve had a lot of fun doing so. It always feels like there are echoes from the past. But maybe one day I will be one of those climbers who passed through and is now gone. Just a little blip no one remembers – – exactly as it should be. What we have is the present “now”.  

oldfattradguuy kkwrote:

Lori, I think it’s great how you are approaching the history and cast of characters at Jtree, don’t forget Gram Parsons and such for a well rounded perspective. 

I used to know Margaret who was with Gram Parsons when he died. I lived in San Franciso in 1971-72. Margaret worked as a waitress at the upscale Shandygaff health food restaurant on Polk Street and her uniform was always Levi's and a cub scout shirt. Looks like the same shirt (?) in this photo with Gram. 

wendy weisswrote:

Hey Lori and Helen, what's with this feeling superior to "rail thin" models or wanting to teach them a lesson about activities and aging? You have no idea about their private lives or what they do outside of modeling for a living.

Howdy! I responded to this yesterday, but deleted that response, and the post of mine that prompted this reply.

So, first, apologies to all for those deletions. It's a measure of stress and tiredness to do something so out of character for me.

Apologies also to anyone who read my earlier post, and was bugged by it. I'd totally agree with Wendy....if that was what I meant to say, lol. Ah tired, and oops. No, I know nothing about the models or their lives, so no, I wasn't making assumptions, except that they are modeling. Just, sometimes, merely asking someone if they've climbed before? Wanna try it sometime? That, sparks fun conversations. Coming from myself, or Lori, it also frames aging differently than the average expectation of what we can and can't do. That's all I was trying to say. That I offended a friend, well, clearly I did a bad job of it.

So?

Lori and I are, to the best of my knowledge, the two in these threads who started climbing as not so young people. In my case, not even very active at anything. Then jumping  full tilt into an "extreme" sport.

That, surprises people. Just that we do this at all, let alone at an age when most aren't doing much, physically.

Cross pollinate that with young people, male or female, models, athletes, etc? Who are making a living with those young bodies?

Well....those of us in this thread offer hope. No, I'll never make any part of a living with this old semi wreck I inhabit.

But I can still do a heckuva lot more then just drive a barcalounger (and no shade at all on those who aren't active). 

We no longer have seemingly unlimited choices, physically, but we do still occupy a body, and still have choices what we do with it. Each one, has their own answer.

So?

Those posed "climbers"?

Hey, maybe they would like to try it for real! It's fun!

After all, if my pitiful old wreck can give it a shot, perhaps, just perhaps.....

I've seen that questioning look in many faces over the years, as people discover I'm a climber. And old. And started old. No life long athleticism, either, just making a choice.

If SHE can try rock climbing....hmmmm ....maybe??? Just ...maybe??? I have mo idea what their question mark possibility might be, but you can see it surface.

Sooner or later, like it or not, young bodies become older bodies. 

Seeing other possibilities, is a gift we bring to the aging world at large. I find this in other ways, too, mostly by doing artwork, also very visibly in public. There is simply no real reason to talk oneself out of what we'd like to try, at any age, but especially not once that clock starts ticking louder.

Helen

Lori, I've stared at Yaniro routes. Uh ......

Old lady Hwrote:

Lori, I've stared at Yaniro routes. Uh ......

 

Helen, you always manage to find the words.     There's a feeling of blind luck here... to be this age, and able to continue with adolescent playtime.  My 2025 goal this year is to find a ringtail cat... which I believe is going to require taking dinner out to Upper Dairy Queen wall, under a full moon, and waiting all night if necessary.  That's it.  2025 resolution.    

I know this can't go on forever.  But I'm beginning to have trust that when the hard physical ends, there will be space for more growth and fun that is less physical.  I'd like to learn calculus.  And maybe another semester of Classical Chinese.  Why not?

I think you should be posting your artwork here.

The main real challenge here is not getting hurt... especially doing something stupid.  I KNOW there's rattlesnakes where I was this morning, I've seen them.  And I know falls are easy here.  That's it... go slow, be careful.  Have the garmin with me. 

Tony Yaniro.  I recently heard an interview with Tony and Randy Leavitt.  (on the Nugget podcast). I've been ogling a picture of Yaniro's Pyromania(c) in Kris Solem's guidebook of the Needles.  OMG. I'd rather be reveling in all the stoke and LIFE of climbers here on this thread, than sinking in the miasma of depression and destructive forces in the outside world today. 

The difinitive photo of Charles - a little too sure of himself for his own good.

Bachar hung with everyone else - all twenty or so of us.  The same twenty every weekend in Josh during the climbing season.  That included Largo, Mariah, Tobin, Waugh, Lynn, Graham, Accomazzo, Harrison, Bulwinkle, Jessica, Houser, Schockley, etc.  The next wave to arrive was Mo and Mari, Yabo, Randy, Dave, Fish, etc.  Randy and Tony and Nick climbed a lot together at some point.  We all climbed a lot together regularly.

I am starting to do some minimal strength training after my gym bouldering sessions. I have been doing a few hangboard exercises (two hand hangs starting at 20 mm down to 8 mm),  one arm lock offs on a good hold, and overcoming isometric finger curls as part of my warm up.

I never did much strength training because it was never a limiting factor, but it may be becoming one with age.  I did weighted pullups, feet elevated pushups, and leg raises today.  I can barely do four pullups with 35 pounds added ( I once could do it with 90 pounds).  I am going to add deadlifts.  Hoping to make some good improvements in the next few months.

Endurance can be maintained or even improved with age.  Strength and power are much harder.  

Jim Uwrote:

The "Byrd Bath" process the BBB is going though was named after senator Robert Byrd who was an "exalted Cyclops" in KKK.  

That is a statement. 

Lori Milaswrote:

It’s crazy to think that this gorgeous place was once alive with climbers pushing their own limits and they must’ve had a lot of fun doing so. It always feels like there are echoes from the past. But maybe one day I will be one of those climbers who passed through and is now gone. Just a little blip no one remembers – – exactly as it should be. What we have is the present “now”.  

11:20 pm 

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=RDseL_BOkLeHM&playnext=1&si=kjeR4crL-p1vZZfW

Haven’t posted for a bit and haven’t kept up with the convo, how’s everyone’s tomatoes going?

Been indoor bouldering and indoor TRing mainly, it’s winter here, but got out to Norton Summit today. It was sunny and nice. Nice vibe too.

Everything at The Summit is hard and pumpy and slick and covered in layers of chalk and sweat.

I just TRed, Bill, who recently turned 70, led the routes.

Also, I’ve been obsessed with this song and esp the video. The movement, the fashion, thinking about their lives, their weekends, the hard work they may have done to save for the shoes, and belts, and scarfed, and (tight) trousers.

It inspired me so much I wrote a poem about it.

Society Sane

by Carl

I wish I could have danced,

Said Milo ‘D argetè,

I wished I could have danced,

He said on his bed he lay.

I wished I could have danced,

And said God like things,

By way of my movement,

Like angelic gossamer wings.

I’d say such things,

That can’t be said in one’s speech,

Things you need to know,

Things that dance can teach.

That one and one,

Are essentially the same,

And remembering we are,

Keeps society sane.

Emil Briggswrote:

Jim's definition of jurisdiction is laughable but it's worth noting even this SCOTUS didn't try to redefine it. The word is used in many laws and changing the definition would have large and unintended consequences. That's not to say they won't try to go there eventually but they punted this time. What they did instead was give the executive branch a license to violate the constitution in states with friendly district courts.

Name me another country in the world where a foreign born female/birthing person/chest feeder (I think I covered all y’all’s correct terms) can come into its borders give birth and the baby is automagically granted citizenship of that country…. I’ll wait.

The 14th amendment has been, and continues to be, exploited way past its original intent to our collective detriment.

As far as the US being the only country with birthright citizenship, I don't know nor care. If it is, I'm glad to live in a country with that being one of it's unique features.

As for the 14th Amendment, you have illustrated on here multiple times that you don't even understand the basics, such as the meaning of jurisdiction, so your opinion as to it's original intent holds little weight.

But if you want to consider an Amendment that has been "exploited way past it's original intent", try the 2nd---"A well-regulated militia....".

Jim Uwrote:

Name me another country in the world where a foreign born female/birthing person/chest feeder (I think I covered all y’all’s correct terms) can come into its borders give birth and the baby is automagically granted citizenship of that country…. I’ll wait.

The 14th amendment has been, and continues to be, exploited way past its original intent to our collective detriment.

Actually I can name over 30 countries that do it. Look it up if you don't believe me. Some of them include.

Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Barbados, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Canada, Chad, Chile, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominica, Ecuador, El Salvador, Fiji, Grenada, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Jamaica, Lesotho, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Trinidad and Tobago, Tuvalu, United States, Uruguay, and Venezuela.

 Edit to add references:
World population review

Wikipedia

Borders and citizenship are a figment of ones imagination , nothing else. Arbitrary rules that Kings and snake oil salesmen came up with hundreds and thousands of years ago shouldn't be taken as if some sort of God made them, we are too smart for this crap, especially in a very new country that not only stole the land we reside on but then we took it to the next level and enslaved folks from another continent to do our work for us. Progress or regress, take your pick...

Old lady Hwrote:

Lori, I've stared at Yaniro routes. Uh ......

 

Helen, we know that you were staring at the poster that Carol had in her van!

Senator Mike Lee has withdrawn his provision in the Senate‘s Big Beautiful Bill to sell off public lands:

Jan Mcwrote:

The difinitive photo of Charles - a little too sure of himself for his own good.

Bachar hung with everyone else - all twenty or so of us.  The same twenty every weekend in Josh during the climbing season.  That included Largo, Mariah, Tobin, Waugh, Lynn, Graham, Accomazzo, Harrison, Bulwinkle, Jessica, Houser, Schockley, etc.  The next wave to arrive was Mo and Mari, Yabo, Randy, Dave, Fish, etc.  Randy and Tony and Nick climbed a lot together at some point.  We all climbed a lot together regularly.

Thank you so much, Jan!  Was he Charles, Chuck, Chaz?

I did print out all of the routes associated with Cole – – there are 112 routes in Joshua Tree and many more in Apple Valley and some in Tahquitz.  

This probably will not be a lengthy romance.  The sheer volume plus mostly one star and two start routes makes any kind of real study prohibitive– – but he did do some good ones. Some I have already experienced like.Shovlin-Cole, Bottle in front of Me, Dog Day Afternoon and ZZZZZ, Run For Your Life. And the Decompensator!

I am smitten by Gun Shy and the Cole route right next to it, Torturers Apprentice. I don’t know what it is about long relentless walls that so inspires me. Maybe precision, endurance, grit… but I dream of those.

Was it Charles who had the poodle? 

 —-

And the weird time warp moving forward and back here in Josh.  Seeing packs of young people marching by with crash pads on their backs… who don’t know and don’t care what was in a different time zone.  There is a different vibe here today… absolutely perfect.