New and experienced climbers over 50 #37

Alan, I saw a map yesterday of local proposed land sales and I couldn’t tell whether Joshua Tree proper was included. Regardless, it’s a terrifying thought. I’m not even sure what is really on the table – – is it to steam roll on in and start leveling these places and building high-rise apartments, or drilling for oil? Whatever it is, I feel certain that we would blockade with our very bodies if necessary.

in terms of action against any and all activities by Trump, I have become a fan of writing letter letters to senators and Congress persons but also making direct phone calls. It may sound like just a drop in the ocean, but the personal responses I have received tell me that these communications are read and add support to what our senators are attempting to do in session. If we want some influence on what our elected officials are doing, we need to do more than just grip amongst ourselves.

I also had a thought on this TDS, ie  Trump Derangement Syndrome, which is used as an epithet against anyone who objects to this administration.  It seems to me that the ones suffering from this mental illness are the blind and obsessed followers of Trump.  

The difficult part of this whole situation is that I would not for the world want to offend or alienate friends who are incredible people who have their own reasons for supporting Trump. If we were to bother to read some of.Kris’ references and citations for example we would see that there are still intelligent people who honestly see more benefit from Trump. We may vigorously disagree, but I hope we can still debate and take off the labels and end the day as good friends.  

For any Gunks visitors who get rained out there is Mustangs bouldering gym that opened in nearby Kingston in April.

My regular gym is Mac Fitness which is right next door.

Rich Rosswrote:

For any Gunks visitors who get rained out there is Mustangs bouldering gym that opened in nearby Kingston in April.

My regular gym is Mac Fitness which is right next door.

Good to know! I've been going to Gravity Vault as I'm just under an hour from the Gunks and GV is the closest gym to West Point. 

As to the story of Tonic Boom, as the information comes in, it is really reviving my desire to write a book. I just know that I’m the last person who should do this. Randy Vogel has written the definitive Joshua Tree guide book. Todd Gordon has an entire wall full of books and guides going back forever. All the information is all there.

But here is this piece of artwork, Tonic Boom, and the routes to the left and right, and you would have to really dig to get the history.  

My curiosity started with me visiting this formation again on Sunday and gazing in total wonderment and asking the question, again, how was this ever climbed? My climbing friend said he would not even want to try it because he would lose a hand.  Jan had mentioned his attack on this route thousands of posts ago, but I couldn’t find it. Randy was able to supply a little more information. Fossil produced two pictures!! And now Russ kindly emailed me more backstory, and some dialogue from super topo.

Now I think we have a story.  There’s actually a little more. Russ said, reaching for and grabbing that crimp was not the end. He still had to go for that hand jam. All in all he was only able to link up all the moves on that route one time.

For the innocent tourist who might wander by tumbling rainbow and wonder about it, or if the beginning climber gazes off in the distance and asks what’s up there (actually that was me six years ago), I think it would be great if there was a book that honored some of these early first ascents here… before they are forgotten, overgrown, and forever lost.

Now I have a question about Days of Thunder. Is that hard 11+ move where the line cuts left?  I mean, I am dreaming.   because it sounds as though it might ease up a bit after that hurdle… enough that I could, maybe someday, Dream Away. 

Alan Rubinwrote:

I know that some on here much prefer that we don't discuss politics on 'our' thread, but sometimes there is a very direct connection. Without repeating it, I refer you all to the current thread entitled 'Public Lands Eligible for Sale'. A few weeks ago on here I asked our Trump-supporting 'Over 50s' how they would feel if the current Administration was threatening to destroy one of their favorite climbing areas, the response was overwhelmingly non-existent!!!! So, now that that potential is a very big step closer to happening ( most of the Federally-administered, non-Wilderness or National Park protected climbing areas in the country--especially the west, are included), I am once again asking for their current thoughts or justifications? This was totally predictable. For the rest of us, at least, it is extremely important for us to try to be heard, even better still if those Trump supporters join with us.

Apparently the snowflakes have melted into non existence and I only say this because snowflake is one of their favorite phrases. They won't join in until it's too late or they have lost another civil war I'm afraid. 

If anyone wants to see a pretty informative movie about the rise of white nationalism, The Order is a pretty good one. It is based on a true story from the eighties, a bit stomach turning because it really helps explain how we got here.

Lori, you cannot stop climbing all summer and even think of climbing these routes you mention!  I'd be out there working the morning and evening shade with your local climber neighbors who would definitely set up TRs for you.  Some of the best climbing is when the tourists are non existent even if it is hot or cold.

Tim Schafstallwrote:

Yes, just don’t pick the busiest weekend of the year this time.

Hangs head in shame.  I know, I know, but what can I say, it's kind of a drive for me, and unlike some of you, I'm still a working stiff, so the three-day weekend works well.  At any rate, if someone coming from further away who has limited options wants to pick a time, I'll try to make it work.  

Though I'll say one thing in my defense.  In my experience, sometimes on three-day weekends The Gunks is actually *less* busy, because many of the New York locals go further afield.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it! 

Ward - I'd love to meet up sometime!  Either at Rumney or at your new crag.  Also, that offer still holds to do SOEO with you sometime.  Might really happen this fall if we can get a crew together.

apogee wrote: I support the fundamental premise of the Pride movement as much as anyone here. But the fact that it has expanded to the degree that it has, and winds up eclipsing much more existential issues like the current disaster of national leadership (as apparently happened in Boston, and I’d imagine other places) rankles me.

Keep in mind that Pride March is one day a year, and it was scheduled way in advance of the No Kings event.  So we (No Kings) were crashing their party, not the other way 'round.  If there is any "blame" to be cast for these two event coinciding, I would send it towards Trump, since he obviously wanted the military parade on his birthday (woulda made more sense on July 4th, which was coming up shortly), and the No Kings date was obviously picked to coincide with this event.

GO

GabeOwrote:

Hangs head in shame.  I know, I know, but what can I say, it's kind of a drive for me, and unlike some of you, I'm still a working stiff, so the three-day weekend works well.  At any rate, if someone coming from further away who has limited options wants to pick a time, I'll try to make it work.  

Though I'll say one thing in my defense.  In my experience, sometimes on three-day weekends The Gunks is actually *less* busy, because many of the New York locals go further afield.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it! 

Ward - I'd love to meet up sometime!  Either at Rumney or at your new crag.  Also, that offer still holds to do SOEO with you sometime.  Might really happen this fall if we can get a crew together.

Keep in mind that Pride March is one day a year, and it was scheduled way in advance of the No Kings event.  So we (No Kings) were crashing their party, not the other way 'round.  If there is any "blame" to be cast for these two event coinciding, I would send it towards Trump, since he obviously wanted the military parade on his birthday (woulda made more sense on July 4th, which was coming up shortly), and the No Kings date was obviously picked to coincide with this event.

GO

Yeah, I'm one of those "full time+" working stiffs!  I just put in vacation time for the mid-week stuff!  
The two mid-week days that I've managed to climb so far that have been dry have been dead! Like not seeing anyone around until the afternoon. Maybe only one or two other teams.  Couldn't believe it. But it's been rainy so maybe that has kept some of the June hoards away?

GabeOwrote:

Hangs head in shame.  I know, I know, but what can I say, it's kind of a drive for me, and unlike some of you, I'm still a working stiff, so the three-day weekend works well.  At any rate, if someone coming from further away who has limited options wants to pick a time, I'll try to make it work.  

Though I'll say one thing in my defense.  In my experience, sometimes on three-day weekends The Gunks is actually *less* busy, because many of the New York locals go further afield.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it! 

Ward - I'd love to meet up sometime!  Either at Rumney or at your new crag.  Also, that offer still holds to do SOEO with you sometime.  Might really happen this fall if we can get a crew together.

Keep in mind that Pride March is one day a year, and it was scheduled way in advance of the No Kings event.  So we (No Kings) were crashing their party, not the other way 'round.  If there is any "blame" to be cast for these two event coinciding, I would send it towards Trump, since he obviously wanted the military parade on his birthday (woulda made more sense on July 4th, which was coming up shortly), and the No Kings date was obviously picked to coincide with this event.

GO

The Gunks can only have so many people with the parking situation,  I've always enjoyed busy weekends there. It also helps you explore the lesser known routes which usually are fun as can be!

Daniel Joderwrote:

I very much identify with your answer to that difficult question, Carl. At 67, I’m trying to hit the gym a lot and climb outside a couple times a week—so I feel like that amount of climbing has me getting stronger and improving. Unfortunately, at the same time, the aging thing seems to have me declining ever so slowly as the months and years pass. The net result is that I seem to be simply staying at the same grades (somewhere in the 5.10 range depending on the route/rock/style). Frustrating…. but “acceptance is the answer to all my problems.” 

At some point that downward curve will steepen and the upward curve will no longer exist. I’m just trying to hold that off as long as I can! (As I think we all are.)

Yup. A couple of weeks shy of 64 and I feel like my climbing can be described as getting better and worse at the same time. I started when I was around 30 and already had a lot of other commitments which meant there was only so much time to devote to climbing. But I was physically very fit from prior athletic pursuits and quickly reached 5.11. And I've stayed around there for more than 30 years now. Sometimes better, sometimes worse but pretty flat overall. But I do it very differently now. Physically I'm no match for my 30 year old self but technically I'm a much better climber. I expect I'm pretty close to the point where the physical decline is going to win out but as long as I'm having fun that's OK.

Ok gang we should all fill this out ...

Here's a link to Outdoor Alliance with a really easy form to send messages to your legislators.

https://www.outdooralliance.org/blog/2025/6/12/senate-spending-package-proposes-selling-off-33-million-acres-of-public-land

Emil Briggswrote:

Yup. A couple of weeks shy of 64 and I feel like my climbing can be described as getting better and worse at the same time. I started when I was around 30 and already had a lot of other commitments which meant there was only so much time to devote to climbing. But I was physically very fit from prior athletic pursuits and quickly reached 5.11. And I've stayed around there for more than 30 years now. Sometimes better, sometimes worse but pretty flat overall. But I do it very differently now. Physically I'm no match for my 30 year old self but technically I'm a much better climber. I expect I'm pretty close to the point where the physical decline is going to win out but as long as I'm having fun that's OK.

I started around the same age as you, Emil - I was 28, and threw myself into climbing.  Seems funny to think of it now, but I felt like I was starting when I was "old" already.  Within six months I was able to do a one-arm pullup on one side, but I was a crap climber relying on brute force, and I doubt I could have done even a real V1.  I quickly lost all that brute strength as I learned technique, and it has been mostly slow progress in climbing ability over the last almost 30 years.  Last year I redpointed the hardest climb I've ever done. I know that won't continue forever, and I do hope to enjoy the slow decline, when it comes, as much as I have enjoyed the slow progression.

Edited to add:  Fossil - it's preaching to the choir here in deep blue MA.

GO

Lori Milaswrote:

...

Now I have a question about Days of Thunder. Is that hard 11+ move where the line cuts left?  I mean, I am dreaming.   because it sounds as though it might ease up a bit after that hurdle… enough that I could, maybe someday, Dream Away. 

Days of Thunder is really only 5.10, it being actually a direct finish to Rainy Day Dream Away. The 5.11 part is low down (way below where the line cuts left), the crux of Rainy Day. 

fossilwrote:

Ok gang we should all fill this out ...

Here's a link to Outdoor Alliance with a really easy form to send messages to your legislators.

https://www.outdooralliance.org/blog/2025/6/12/senate-spending-package-proposes-selling-off-33-million-acres-of-public-land

Done - thanks!

Randywrote:

Days of Thunder is really only 5.10, it being actually a direct finish to Rainy Day Dream Away. The 5.11 part is low down (way below where the line cuts left), the crux of Rainy Day. 

Randy, I wanted to take the opportunity to thank you personally for all the great advice and beta you’ve given me over the last few years. Within a few weeks of arriving here I had your guidebook to settle in with and try to figure this place out.  When I have been totally lost and didn’t know what I was looking at or whether it could be climbed, you’ve dropped in with the right information. I’ve had such a good time, especially as an unlikely traveler here, with distant helpers to give me some course correction and encouragement.  

You’ve just been kind. Thank you so very much.

Rich Rosswrote:

Dragons, that was a joke about them being in costume. I think that's their normal look.

I know  

Yes I was there. 

I live here near Kingston.

Want to climb together some time perhaps? Not sure if you'd enjoy the relatively easy routes that I'm at. Shoot me a DM if you're in need of a partner.

Buck Rogerswrote:

I might catch some flack here amongst the Gunkophiles but I actually loved YYYY way more than Gelsa.  Gelsa seemed too short and the first pitch (or the first 2 pitches if you roll them together like I did) were not that amazing.

Still a no-doubt 4 star climb, in my opinion, but I'd lead YYYY 5 times to every Gelsa, given the choice.

I have to agree. BTW, I was trying to figure out the history of that name, Yum Yum Yab Yum. So I asked ChatGPT. (On a side note, I've been having a discussion with my technical colleagues about the usefulness and general trustworthiness of ChatGPT.)

Here's what ChatGPT said. I've trimmed a bit:

Yum Yum Yab Yum is a real climbing route located in the Near Trapps section of the Gunks (Shawangunks) in New York. It's a two-pitch route that climbs a thin face and shallow corners, often rated around 5.10a.

"Yab-Yum" is a Tibetan term that translates to "father-mother" and is often associated with Tantric Buddhism. It symbolizes the union of wisdom and compassion, often depicted in sculpture or art as a male deity in sexual embrace with a female consort. It has been referenced in both spiritual and countercultural contexts.

Given that:

• Many climbers in the Gunks during the 1970s–80s were part of or influenced by Eastern philosophy, psychedelic culture, or the Beat generation.

• The route name includes a bit of playful redundancy (“Yum Yum Yab Yum”), which might suggest tongue-in-cheek humor or wordplay—common in route naming at the Gunks.

Route History:

The first ascent is attributed to John Bragg and Art Gran in the early 1970s (exact year varies by guidebook). Bragg was known for pushing standards at the Gunks and bringing technical, bold style to the crag. Gran was also an influential climber and writer in the Gunks scene.

Route Details:

• Grade: ~5.10a

• Protection: Gear-protected, with some thin sections.

• Style: Face and corner climbing; considered technical.

• Location: Not far from Yellow Ridge or Birdie Party in the Nears.

Huh not sure about those details.

There has been some discussion about ChatGPT "hallucinating". Here we have a route graded 5.3 (in the Purple Dick) which is declared by ChatGPT to be 5.10a. The Purple Dick says the FA was by Art Gran and Al DeMaria. No mention of John Bragg. "Birdie Party" is in the Trapps?

Oh, and ChatGPT says that Yab Yum was mentioned in Heinlein's Time Enough for Love (1973). Haven't read that one.

I'm reading that right now...don't remember that passage, but I'm only 3/4 through.

5.3 in the blue Dick too.  Art Gran's guide says; 5.3, F5.  "A take off on Himalayan names, it means "delicious love.""  FA Art Gran, Al DeMaria, 1960.  Similar to Swain's guidebook (fat blue Swain?  Ha ha).  

Good stuff!