Kiss yer big flag goodbye - Yosemite

NPS Compendium for Yosemite - see page 23 (applies to designated wilderness). Note a series of small flag is permissible :-).

https://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/wilderness.htm

Just for the record, the following climbing areas still have high roadside visibility and are not in designated or potential wilderness:

• Parkline Slab
• Arch Rock
• Cookie Cliff
• Pat & Jack
• Reed's Pinnacle
• Elephant Rock
• The Rostrum

Also for the record, having to look at any flag, billboard, graffiti imposed upon a natural landscape will likely hurt that cause more than help it. Pride flags, trans flags, MAGA flags, Ukraine/Gaza flags, etc. Nobody seeing these is unaware of these issues, and having their views disrupted when they're just trying to enjoy a peaceful day at a park isn't going to persuade anyone to your side, but could push potential advocates away. For the sake of our collective mental health, let people take a break from the world's troubles for a moment every now and then. 

Brandon Rwrote:

Also for the record, having to look at any flag, billboard, graffiti imposed upon a natural landscape will likely hurt that cause more than help it. Pride flags, trans flags, MAGA flags, Ukraine/Gaza flags, etc. Nobody seeing these is unaware of these issues, and having their views disrupted when they're just trying to enjoy a peaceful day at a park isn't going to persuade anyone to your side, but could push potential advocates away. For the sake of our collective mental health, let people take a break from the world's troubles for a moment every now and then. 

The communities being oppressed and targeted by this administration don't have the choice to "take a break from the world's troubles." 

Sure, maybe flying these flags in protest won't convince someone to change their stance, BUT at the very least it will sure show marginalized communities that strangers out there support them. 

Erinectile Dysfunctionwrote:

The communities being oppressed and targeted by this administration don't have the choice to "take a break from the world's troubles." 

Sure, maybe flying these flags in protest won't convince someone to change their stance, BUT at the very least it will sure show marginalized communities that strangers out there support them. 

Well, if you're in Yosemite, within sight of one of these flags, then you probably are trying to take a break from it all. I would even wager that there are people within these marginalized communities that absolutely do try to take a quick break, to decompress, and just be a human in nature for a day. I guess I just think that gaining widespread public support is the most important weapon we have to make change, and I'd hate to erode that potential support by annoying those that can still be persuaded. 

Brandon Rwrote:

Well, if you're in Yosemite, within sight of one of these flags, then you probably are trying to take a break from it all. I would even wager that there are people within these marginalized communities that absolutely do try to take a quick break, to decompress, and just be a human in nature for a day. I guess I just think that gaining widespread public support is the most important weapon we have to make change, and I'd hate to erode that potential support by annoying those that can still be persuaded. 

I hear you. Sadly there isn't a singular right way to stand up against everything going on. For me personally, though, sitting down and shutting up definitely feels like the wrong choice.  

I don’t know about you folks, but my wife and I have our signs ready for this Saturday. Yes, even here in Barcelona there will be a June 14 “No Kings” protest for us expats and I’m pretty sure there is a protest very close to where you live. (The only curious oddity here is that we have been asked to not use the “King” terminology on our signs as Spain is still a monarchy—-constitutional monarchy, but a monarchy nonetheless. Can’t ruffle the local feathers, I guess.)

Erinectile Dysfunctionwrote:

The communities being oppressed and targeted by this administration don't have the choice to "take a break from the world's troubles." 

Sure, maybe flying these flags in protest won't convince someone to change their stance, BUT at the very least it will sure show marginalized communities that strangers out there support them. 

I fully support equal rights and better treatment for any and all communities you might be referring to. With that said, there's also ways to do things in a deliberate and measured way that can be effective without alienating more people from the cause. There are 100 ways to show marginalized communities support outside of putting up a huge flag on a rock wall in a national park. 

I get the spirit of what you're saying and for the most part I agree with it, but it feels like there are better avenues to pursue at this point. Just because this one door closes doesn't mean it's a big defeat, it just means to focus effort on any one of the myriad other ways to show support and demand better for everyone.

Brandon Rwrote:

Well, if you're in Yosemite, within sight of one of these flags, then you probably are trying to take a break from it all. 

... and more than likely you're sitting in traffic

Erinectile Dysfunctionwrote:

I hear you. Sadly there isn't a singular right way to stand up against everything going on. For me personally, though, sitting down and shutting up definitely feels like the wrong choice.  

I can completely understand that feeling. 

About No Kings Day... it actually seems appropriate to fly the "don't tread on me" flag. Maybe those republican and libertarian types who (hopefully) still value the Constitution will take note.

Cosmic Hotdogwrote:

I fully support equal rights and better treatment for any and all communities you might be referring to. With that said, there's also ways to do things in a deliberate and measured way that can be effective without alienating more people from the cause. There are 100 ways to show marginalized communities support outside of putting up a huge flag on a rock wall in a national park. 

I get the spirit of what you're saying and for the most part I agree with it, but it feels like there are better avenues to pursue at this point. Just because this one door closes doesn't mean it's a big defeat, it just means to focus effort on any one of the myriad other ways to show support and demand better for everyone.

I'm sympathetic to this viewpoint but if you look at which protests are effective and have cultural impact it's generally the ones where normal people are impacted and don't like it. There's a spectrum of course, I think shutting down freeways for example goes too far, but most of the famous, historic protests we see today in a overwhelmingly positive light were extremely controversial in their day and subject to significant debate with regards to both their morality and effectiveness. 

If you look into the history of protesting and which movements were successful and why it will pretty dramatically shape the way you view these things. You're not going to have an effective protest without pissing people off because to a large degree the controversy and the attention it generates is why it's effective in the first place. 

Ricky Harlinewrote:

I'm sympathetic to this viewpoint but if you look at which protests are effective and have cultural impact it's generally the ones where normal people are impacted and don't like it. There's a spectrum of course, I think shutting down freeways for example goes too far, but most of the famous, historic protests we see today in a overwhelmingly positive light were extremely controversial in their day and subject to significant debate with regards to both their morality and effectiveness. 

If you look into the history of protesting and which movements were successful and why it will pretty dramatically shape the way you view these things. You're not going to have an effective protest without pissing people off because to a large degree the controversy and the attention it generates is why it's effective in the first place. 

Totally fair and valid take, I hear you. I think the flags on El Cap and on Intersection Rock at Jtree were effective at the time because they impacted normal people and many found it bothersome, thereby bringing more attention to the message behind the action. So I think you're right that protests are more effective when they ruffle feathers to some degree.

The message I was trying to convey but didn't do a good job of it was: The flags were effective but now that it's a method of protesting that's been shut down it just means to keep doing it but find a new way (that should also impact normal people to a reasonable degree so as to bring attention to the message). My post was an attempt at saying, hey don't give up just because one specific means of protest got shut down, just find another new and novel way to do it and keep fighting. 

Yosemite for 99% of visitors is a once in a lifetime trip. I can't imagine going there to get some pictures and enjoy nature only to have some stupid flag in my pictures. This has nothing to do with the type of flag. Its the principle. 

Anyone advocating for a flag of any type on the nose is a GIGANTIC hypocrite. We know that the people supporting this current action would be outraged if it was a "Come and Take it", "MAGA", or some other right leaning political flag. 

I don't support any flag, of any kind on national parks. Get that BS out of here losers. 

Erinectile Dysfunctionwrote:

I hear you. Sadly there isn't a singular right way to stand up against everything going on. For me personally, though, sitting down and shutting up definitely feels like the wrong choice.  

I don't think anyone said "sit down and shut up". The message seems to be: Don't make enemies while trying to persuade centrists.

Brandon Rwrote:

I can completely understand that feeling. 

About No Kings Day... it actually seems appropriate to fly the "don't tread on me" flag. Maybe those republican and libertarian types who (hopefully) still value the Constitution will take note.

The Don't Tread on Me flag has been usurped by the Executive Orders Monarchy.

Bb Ccwrote:

The Don't Tread on Me flag has been usurped by the Executive Orders Monarchy.

Bb Ccwrote:

I don't think anyone said "sit down and shut up". The message seems to be: Don't make enemies while trying to persuade centrists.

Can we get this in sign language for the (tone) deaf?   

Christian Heschwrote:

Can we get this in sign language for the (tone) deaf?   

About 250 of us at the protest here Barcelona today. My wife was interviewed by the local news. It will be interesting to see how things go in the US with something like 1800 different protest sites planned. I actually bowed out of a day climbing with my buddies to do this. It has to be pretty damn important for me to miss a day of climbing!

I also have been following with much interest the chatter about all the “easy” routes you guys are doing at the Gunks. I’m trying to figure out a way to get there for a week or so… trying to talk my wife into it. If I can get the permission slip signed, I’ll be asking a lot of questions. Hopefully this year sometime. In the meantime, I’m envious as the Gunks sits at number one on my USA bucket list.

EDIT: Oops. Posted this in the wrong place. It was meant for the Over 50 thread…

Brandon Rwrote:

I can completely understand that feeling. 

About No Kings Day... it actually seems appropriate to fly the "don't tread on me" flag. Maybe those republican and libertarian types who (hopefully) still value the Constitution will take note.

Wishful thinking. The fact that they voted for Trump a second time after seeing what a sh!tshow his first term was, along with his promises to do worse if re-elected…they’re unreachable.  

"Defiance of the Man" is the reason the flag was placed there to begin with. Its hardly a surprise The Man outlaws it. The Man doesn't like or want that sort of attention. The defiance is still there though. There will be flag. Wash rinse repeat