New and experienced climbers over 50 #36

philip bonewrote:

I will paraphrase, " The only thing that makes slab climbing interesting is run-outs." Funny, true-ish. I do enjoy it. The difference in leading vs TR is quite marked though. Kind of like defusing a bomb.

Oddly, surfers use the term also.

LOL. Some truth to that. But I think hard slab boulder problems can be fun even if their only 12 feet tall.

Ward Smithwrote:

What would your lifespan be Alan if there were no antibiotics, no surgery to fix broken bones, and you were fighting wild animals every day?  And you had to live outside ?  The low average lifespan 10,000 years ago had nothing to do with a keto diet.   It did have to do with people dying of what are now preventable causes, including starvation.

All I am saying is that we clearly did not evolve eating a high carbohydrate diet. 

Hunting and gathering peoples have been making flours for tens of thousands of years at least.

But what we did evolve with high carb diets is civilization. And this brought us those medicinal advances that have led to longer, healthier lives.

Note, there is virtually no diabetes in high carb diets featuring low glycemic indexes (whole grains), just mostly high processed sugar ones ie American food.

We've been omnivores for millions of years of evolution. Meat availability varies enormously among "primitive" peoples where all the evolution took place.

And if the whole planet went keto we would either starve or destroy it in short order. I'll give you the homework to figure that out.

Buck Rogerswrote:

Such a super cool discussion and so great that we have Permabeta here with their background and expertise!  (assuming that they are not a bot???? Just kidding!!!)

When I lived in Germany we spent one Thanksgiving in the South Tyrolean mountains Nordic skiing and hiking and we took a day trip down to Bolzano and visited the Otzi man museum.  

Really great stuff!

Now he was "only" around 5,300 years ago but still very interesting to see his last meal diet and the amount of cardiovascular disease that he already had from his diet.

Granted only an "N' of 1 but still really interesting.

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(18)30703-6

So interesting! I'm always a bit skeptical of these sorts of studies; did they get everything right? Here's an excerpt:

The extreme alpine environment in which the Iceman lived and where he have been found (3,210 m above sea level) is particularly challenging for the human physiology and requires optimal nutrient supply to avoid rapid starvation and energy loss [31]. Therefore, the Iceman seemed to have been fully aware that fat displays an excellent energy source. On the other hand, the intake of animal adipose tissue fat has a strong correlation with increased risk of coronary artery disease [32]. A high saturated fats diet raises cholesterol levels in the blood, which in turn can lead to atherosclerosis. Importantly, computed tomography scans of the Iceman showed major calcifications in arteria and the aorta indicating an already advanced atherosclerotic disease state [33]. Both his high-fat diet and his genetic predisposition for cardiovascular disease [34] could have significantly contributed to the development of the arterial calcifications.

I'm interested to hear what Ward thinks about that? More info - "The Iceman was murdered when he was 40-50 years old by an arrow that lacerated the left subclavian artery, likely leading to a rapid, deadly hemorrhagic shock"

From the abstract:

He seems to have had a remarkably high proportion of fat in his diet, supplemented with fresh or dried wild meat, cereals, and traces of toxic bracken

Great! The next fad diet will include tincture of toxic bracken.

dragonswrote:

So interesting! I'm always a bit skeptical of these sorts of studies; did they get everything right? Here's an excerpt:

I'm interested to hear what Ward thinks about that? More info - "The Iceman was murdered when he was 40-50 years old by an arrow that lacerated the left subclavian artery, likely leading to a rapid, deadly hemorrhagic shock"

From the abstract:

Great! The next fad diet will include tincture of toxic bracken.

Yes!  I found it odd that for a peer-reviewed scientific journal that is over 50 years old that they would assert, "Therefore, the Iceman seemed to have been fully aware that fat displays an excellent energy source."

Not sure that is a valid assumption to make 5,300 years later!

This is another fun article just released last month about Otzi man.

https://www.acs.org/education/chemmatters/articles/otzi-the-iceman-reveals-5300-year-old-secrets.html#:~:text=Radiocarbon%20dating%20of%20his%20tissues,old%20age%20for%20his%20time.

And it is definitely a worthwhile museum to visit if you find yourself in the South Tyrol for a climbing trip!

That article is really interesting, especially the part about Iceman's atherosclerotic blood vessels.

Ignoring how many carbohydrates primitive man consumed, I think there's decent evidence to support the idea meat heavy diets aren't healthy. But from the standpoint of natural selection, one only needs to be capable of reaching reproductive age...heart disease kills you long after that.

 So while I can't say loading up on animal protein won't facilitate crushing one's proj, I figure a bunch of middle aged (and older) climbers might also be interested in optimizing healthspan. As far as I know, there's no data to suggest low carbohydrate diets do that.

Sprayloard Overstokerwrote:

Hunting and gathering peoples have been making flours for tens of thousands of years at least.

But what we did evolve with high carb diets is civilization. And this brought us those medicinal advances that have led to longer, healthier lives.

Note, there is virtually no diabetes in high carb diets featuring low glycemic indexes (whole grains), just mostly high processed sugar ones ie American food.

We've been omnivores for millions of years of evolution. Meat availability varies enormously among "primitive" peoples where all the evolution took place.

And if the whole planet went keto we would either starve or destroy it in short order. I'll give you the homework to figure that out.

Yeah, seems pretty intuitive hunters and gatherers worked with whatever nature provided, and adapting to a diverse diet with variable resource availability would be advantageous.

You'd think we'd learn our lesson about demonizing entire classes of macronutrients after the "fat is bad" era. Yet pop nutrition is doing the exact same thing now with carbohydrates, conflating healthy stuff with sugary, ultra processed crap. 

I would bet Otzi was more concerned about the dude that shot the arrow in to him than his diet. He probably never passed up anything that he thought was edible. At that he lived to a ripe old age and was still felled by an arrow. Might be a message to us all there. ;-)

Well at least he died doing what he loved.

Wasn’t he the Green Lanterns sidekick?

Emil Briggswrote:

LOL. Some truth to that. But I think hard slab boulder problems can be fun even if their only 12 feet tall.

Lori, and other J Tree locals - could you hear or feel the bomb blast?  Is there any news you're getting about it that hasn't made the national circuit?

GO

GabeOwrote:

Lori, and other J Tree locals - could you hear or feel the bomb blast?  Is there any news you're getting about it that hasn't made the national circuit?

GO

Are you talking about the bombing in Palm Springs a few days ago?  (Fertility clinic with 1 dead).  We were actually there at the time but due to wind storm decided to have lunch a few miles farther away so we weren’t aware of it at the time.  We would not have felt it here in J Tree. 

As Lori said, the explosion was far too distant to be felt here in JT. From what I've heard, there was a local connection in that the guy who set it off (and blew himself up with it) lived in Twentynine Palms, just down the road from here. 

Brandt Allenwrote:

As Lori said, the explosion was far too distant to be felt here in JT. From what I've heard, there was a local connection in that the guy who set it off (and blew himself up with it) lived in Twentynine Palms, just down the road from here. 

Yes, and from what I have been reading, he sounds like he would have fit right in with some of the neighbors that Lori has described!!!!

Much more seriously, is where did he get those explosives---sounds like they were very potent? Wouldn't surprise me if there is an explosive/weapon black market off of the Marine base---and who else has gotten their hands on such things???

Poor old Joe. Why did he put himself through all that? Power, prestige, coercion? I mean yeah, you could say to yourself, " I was president." Will that keep one warm in the eternal void?

The other guy? Less sympathy. But, perhaps time will tell who's pulling his string.

Yesterday morning:

This morning:

Distraction, distraction, distraction. “Never mind the man behind the curtain (White House)!!!!”

Gabe, what Brandt said. About 60 miles, mountains, and several thousand feet of elevation between Palm Springs and Joshua Tree.

An explosion in Palm Springs area that would be felt in JT would be an end of the world as we know it type of bomb.

Thank you, Apogee. I don't have the heart to read the specifics. Is not stress a factor in anyone's longevity?

Al - There is no shortage of whackos of all kinds around here. I heard some speculation that this was a homemade bomb, perhaps made of fertilizer, diesel fuel, etc. Apparently instructions are easily obtained on the internet. 

In comparison to what is going on in governance right now, the specifics are less than trivial. I have long apppreciated National Review for articulate writing (even if I don’t agree with it), but in the last several weeks, their obsession with Biden, while so many catastrophic events are being orchestrated by their own party has really downgraded my view of this media source.