The Fulgurite Thread

FWIW, the fulgurite story for these specific deposits is one that has been told to me numerous times at Vedauwoo over the years, by many different people. I never paid it much attention, but after I had heard it from enough sources over multiple years, I started to believe there might be some truth to it.  In investigating the phenomena further, I quickly noticed that, with few exceptions involving very old looking and very white deposits, these specific granitic fulgurites were prolific near pack rat dens.  Still believing them to potentially be lightning strikes, I briefly entertained the theory that, in Vedauwoo, a) lightening often almost always strikes in the same place, often almost always roughly halfway up a Vedauwoo dome often almost always near some kind of ledge or alcove, and that b) pack rats were fascinated with these places in the same way that they and other animals are fascinated with bright and shiny objects, and so chose to live as close to them as possible. I very quickly came to other conclusions, but it was a fun theory to entertain for a short while, lol.

Yeah, lightning is a way cooler thing.  I must say, it becomes pretty obvious that my Mount Evans fulgurites are now highly suspect.  I must say that, up there, there was no indication of rodent habitation, and I have been climbing in the area since 1990.  Also, the thing about the fulgurites up there is that they are all pure white.  None of this yellow stuff on top that looks so obviously recent like the "fulgurites" at the Maze.  Up there it's like everything was doused with Chlorox.

Rat piss or mega lighting strike?

Rat piss, definitely.  I'm kind of an expert now.

Dude I love the humility and willingness to be wrong/learn. Let us know anything new you learn about rat shit or lightening, I'm loving it

This has been a very entertaining thread. I'm still not sure who was playing along and who was being played.

I agree that the "fossilized" rat urine is pretty interesting in its own right; particularly the relationship with the orange lichen.  By the way, I found that the white stuff dissolves completely in full strength Muriatic acid (~ 31% hydrochloric).  That pretty much seals the deal for me.

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

Oh nice!! I only learned about these this past summer but now I see em all over. Scary too because lots of em are nowhere near a summit but hundreds of feet below one. I’d like to know what it is that attracts the orange lichen. Whatever species of lichen it is, it grows elsewhere too, but the only lichens I’ve seen surrounding the scars are the orange ones.

Not a geologist but the Lichen species could be Xanthoria sp. Or Xanthomendoza sp. based on the color. 

The thing that confuses me is the insistence that there aren't any rodents on Mount Evans.

Brilliant lichens reveal mammal perches 

So, Alex, you're probably right.  I mean, I've always known that there were marmots and pikas on the tundra, which has typically all sorts of rock shelters already.  You generally see marmots every time you go there and typically hear but rarely see the pikas.  I've never seen evidence for rodents actually on the crags, until now, I guess.  The particular place where I photographed so many "fulgurites" was one of more than 20 small towers and spires, well to the climber's right of the Black Wall and even right of the Tan Buttresses.  Now that I am thinking rightly about this whole affair, I can see how these towers all have shorter, uphill sides and lots of horizontal cracks that would put the towers in easy communication with the tundra.  Still, I was on top of several of these towers and never saw evidence of the little poops which were obviously associated with these occurrences at the Maze at Vedauwoo.  Maybe they just use the cliffs to urinate on,  But even then, I never saw evidence of fresh urine (yellowish and clearer on top of the white) like I did at Vedauwoo.  So, let's just say I have a lot of questions about these varmints in the Mount Evans area.

And I agree with JNE.  The white stuff is undoubtedly full of phosphorus and nitrogen that nourishes the lichen -- too concentrated to actually grow on top of, but probably ideal for being within a close proximity where water can dissolve the nutrients, keeping them at an ideal concentration.  

In many respects I am reluctant to post to this thread again -- a thread with a misguided premise, after all.  But, being one of 11 kids, I learned how to swallow my pride early on.  My reason for maybe my  final post from me is to make a plug for the scientific method.  The scientific method is a method for testing scientific truth.  I said from the beginning of this thread that I thought that the white markings I showed in my opening post were fulgurites.  I went on to explain (as if I knew wtf I was talking about) that fulgurites were markings on the native granite rock as the result of surface melting of the native rock because of temporarily extremely high temperatures that occur during direct lightning strikes..

The thing is, I proposed a testable hypothesis.  The fact that my hypothesis was wrong does hurt my pride a little bit, but as soon as I became aware of my bad assumptions through further testing, I was willing to alter my hypothesis (not fulgurites but some sort of admittedly weird semi-fossilized rodent excretions).  The further testing amounted to applying the "white stuff" to a simple test of immersing it in 30 percent hydrochloric acid.  The white stuff completely dissolved.  The rock underneath it did not dissolve at all.  I had assumed that the white stuff was a type of glass.  Clearly it is not, since it should not dissolve.  What does dissolve in acid like this?  Organic stuff.  My new hypothesis has got to be that this is 1) organic and not a glass.  And therefore, 2) likely the result of animal secretions.  

There are some hard to explain observations with the rodent urine hypothesis, for sure.  Firstly, it is not uncommon to see the white markings on the underside of a chockstone or cave.  Secondly, the white markings nearly always occur preferentially along continuous lines of a few centimeters up to maybe a couple of feet.  Often those lines coincide with the edges of the rock-air interface.  In other words, they occur on natural aretes and (both sides of) ledges.  Weird to be sure.  Anybody got any other ideas for this weird phenomenon?

Maybe rodents hanging out at the edge of ledges and caves got the piss scared out of them by lightning strikes?

I thought JNE's linked article suggested that the white urine streaks would be on exposed edges and peaks cause that's where rodents do their lookout duty. A "cave" mouth is a great place to keep an eye out for predators: good views and safety is right near by. 

But I dunno about the white streaks on the roofs of caves or undersides of chockstones. Maybe running down from a good perch elsewhere? Was the stuff you tested from a floor or a roof? 

Don't feel bad about being wrong; there's no shame in being wrong. It's like falling in sport climbing. At first it seems like a bad thing, but then you learn the only way to get any better is to fall.

This island has become one giant fulgurite! 

urolites?

Greg, did you test the features at both the Voo and Mt Evans?