Hexes: Active or Passive?

Eric Craig wrote:

I get that they are as useless as hexes, or even more so, but I guess big bros are therefore active cams?

When loaded by a fall, how much does an active cam, or hex, or tricam rotate?

I would hope a cam, hex or tricam would barely move at all when loaded in an ideal situation although the device is attempting to move through its entire range of motion it is hopefully unable to do so because of the rock you placed it in. This circles back to the original question when you place any of these pieces of gear in their “active” modes your are looking to create outward force by activating a camming motion by applying force to a specific part of your protection. Or while placing them in a “passive” mode you are simply using some form of constriction to block the movement of the piece when it is loaded. Regardless of what kind of gear it is you are not activating any form of mechanical action so it is a passive piece. In my opinion it is obvious that Hexes are both passive and active pro. 

Marc801 C wrote:

Friends were first sold in 1977.

Maybe. I have seen that claim elsewhere. 

In 1977 in Yosemite only Ray Jardine had Friends. A VERY few other people knew of them,  and they were sworn to secrecy. My friend, the late Dave Altman was one of those people. I wasn't aware of their existence until  1980 +/- a year maybe, and it was Dave that enlightened me. And IIRC, that was still before they were available in CA, but he had been released by Jardine from his secrecy commitment. I never saw a Friend in Yosemite in the 1970's, and I was there regularly. I never saw them for sale in any of the gear shops in the 1970's.

There are accounts here on MP, and elsewhere, of and by people making cutting edge ascents in the late 70's and maybe even 1980 or 81 with hexes and no Friends, Mark Hudon among them. 

Maybe I'm all fucked up, but my memory is usually pretty damn close. But I could be wrong? If someone KNOWS better, please correct me. That might even be you Marc.

Ok Marc, I guess I am corrected,  as in being wrong. I would be off by 2 years apparently.  It does surprise me. My most vivid memory that I thought I could date was being in the Valley spring of '82, and having 2 #1 friends (1 was booty), and 1 number 2. Walt Shipley had 2 #1-1/2's and no 1 and a couple bigger ones. We traded so we each had a 1 and 1-1/2. I am pretty sure it's the same spring I led the above mentioned routes as I specifically recall placing at least one Friend on Cat Squirrel, which I don't think Bill Price did until 1981, and I think that was without Friends. Maybe I really am all fucked up on the years. Guess I will start looking stuff up. Sorry man!

Eric Craig wrote:

Maybe. I have seen that claim elsewhere. 

In 1977 in Yosemite only Ray Jardine had Friends. A VERY few other people knew of them,  and they were sworn to secrecy. My friend, the late Dave Altman was one of those people. I wasn't aware of their existence until  1980 +/- a year maybe, and it was Dave that enlightened me. And IIRC, that was still before they were available in CA, but he had been released by Jardine from his secrecy commitment. I never saw a Friend in Yosemite in the 1970's, and I was there regularly. I never saw them for sale in any of the gear shops in the 1970's.

There are accounts here on MP, and elsewhere, of and by people making cutting edge ascents in the late 70's and maybe even 1980 or 81 with hexes and no Friends, Mark Hudon among them. 

Maybe I'm all fucked up, but my memory is usually pretty damn close. But I could be wrong? If someone KNOWS better, please correct me. That might even be you Marc.

I was off by a year. I didn't have them in 1977 on my first trip to the Valley, but I certainly did the next year. I purchased my first set from Ray Jardine via mail order in 1978 prior to them becoming generally available from Wild Country later in 1978.

See: https://www.paci.com.au/Ray-Jardine_history.htm

Also: https://www.wildcountry.com/en-us/heritage-of-wild-country

"Wild Country is the name of the company Mark set up in 1977 to make those Friends. At first, things were difficult, cash flow was limited, suppliers and specialist staff were not easy to find. But Mark took the plunge, left his job, founded a new company and borrowed all the money he could get. Famously, he was filmed on television taking a huge leader fall on two Friends from 30-feet up on the route Dexterity at Millstone Edge in the Peak District on BBC’s “Tomorrow’s World”. Broadcast shortly after Friends were released in 1978, there could be no better publicity. Within six months, Friends were being exported to sixteen different countries around the world."

Marc801 C wrote:

I was off by a year. I didn't have them in 1977 on my first trip to the Valley, but I certainly did the next year. I purchased my first set from Ray Jardine via mail order in 1978 prior to them becoming generally available from Wild Country later in 1978.

See: https://www.paci.com.au/Ray-Jardine_history.htm

Also: https://www.wildcountry.com/en-us/heritage-of-wild-country

What was it like climbing with friends in those early days? Did you get pushback? Were they an immediate game changer or did climbers such as yourself not realize their full potential immediately?

i like to seat my placements with a tap, so i guess that makes them passive aggressive?

Ricky Harline wrote:

What was it like climbing with friends in those early days? Did you get pushback? Were they an immediate game changer or did climbers such as yourself not realize their full potential immediately?

they were a total game changer

period 

wake and bake wrote:

they were a total game changer

period 

My impression is that it took a while before people were taking full double racks up everything, didn't it? Or am I misinformed? I'm really curious to learn what the evolution in their usage was like in the early days. Like did people with single racks preserve them for leads and mostly make nut anchors? If anyone wants to share any insight into climbing with Friends in the late 70s through the 80s was like I'm extremely curious to learn about it. 

We made do with what we had. I was poor and had to build a cam rack fairly slowly. My brother gave me my first Friend, a #2, for my birthday, shortly after Wild Country opened the flood gates. I already had a tried and true rack of stoppers and hexes. So I started with one cam. We were leading easy routes in Linville Gorge that way, very early 80s. Slowly I built a rack of friends.

Frankly I ran it out way more, back then. We all did. I never even needed a double of anything till I got to Yosemite. Thankfully, Wired Bliss and Metolious 3-cam units came along for small cam pro, I focused on those next. I was raising a family by then and still watching every penny. If we needed more, we combined racks with a partner, of course. 

My current partner insists on taking the kitchen sink on every lead. I, on the other hand, will dump any pro I think is unnecessary for the next lead, on the 2nd. I don't get mega-racks for single pitch climbing, and I damn sure don't get wearing all that gear on the harness - ludicrous!  

Ricky Harline wrote:

My impression is that it took a while before people were taking full double racks up everything, didn't it? Or am I misinformed? I'm really curious to learn what the evolution in their usage was like in the early days. Like did people with single racks preserve them for leads and mostly make nut anchors? If anyone wants to share any insight into climbing with Friends in the late 70s through the 80s was like I'm extremely curious to learn about it. 

I am not sure how reliable a source I am now, BUT, Friends were at minimum uncommon in Yosemite through the 70's. They were not sold in the gear shops including the Mountain Shop. I worked in the Mountain Shop in the Valley in the summer of 1981, they sold all the latest groovey gear. Not even a rumor of such things AS I RECALL. They definitely didn't sell them. I bought a number 1 and 2 in Berkeley somewhere in spring of '82. Maybe I am off a year. 

The mentality about climbing and especially leading was extremely different in those days. Neither I, nor anybody I climbed with through 2000 or so carried more than a single rack, except on special occasions. The only free climbing pitch I have ever led and carried doubles on, based on my recollection,  is Butterballs. In '78 or 9 it was double #5 & 6 hexes. Later, double 1 and 1-1/2 friends. That's it. After TCU's came around,  mid 80's, IF I carried both, well then I had doubles in 1 and 1 1/2, but almost never did that. WE carried the minimum we thought we would, at the barest minimum,  need. THAT WAS the mentality. We relied on climbing skill, both physical and mental. The equipment was our back up. A 15 piece rack was a big rack.

Neither sticky rubber nor cams was an immediate total game changer. It took time for us to get spoiled by the new gear. 

Wall climbing is different. I'd say the combination of TCU's and Friends was an immediate game changer. I bought my first TCU's in the Mountain shop,  a double set (.5-1-1/2 wired bliss), just before guiding the NW face of Half Dome the first time. I  had triples 1 and 1 1/2 total between the TCU's and Friends,  double #2 and single 2 1/2 and single 3. These are original friend sizes, not Camalot sizes. And a set of stoppers and that's the WHOLE rack for RNWF. Nothing bigger than a 2 Camalot. Same rack on repeat trips. Same rack SFWC and the like. That was the mentality. 

Oh yeah, as soon as you adopted cams, the hexes were left behind. 

Other opinions may differ, but that's how I and those I worked, climbed, and hung with did things. BITD.

I bought the full set of Friends in 1978 ?. I was in Yosemite and some guy (Jardine?) was selling these from his car. They were cheep. I still have the same complete set as my second (spare and unused) rack.

I those days, we climbed with set of Friends, set of Stoppers, later with set of RPs, 10 over the shoulder slings, two biners per sling. That was the rack. We didn't do anything too hard (up to 10s) but carrying more gear wasn't in vogue. And same as Eric above, the hexes were left behind as soon as cams became available.

I'm enjoying the history lessons. Curious, regarding the smaller racks, you also had shorter ropes, no? So pitches were shorter.

Andrew

50 meters, single, 11 mm, Kernmantle. Some people were still using Goldline ropes in the late 70s. .

wake and bake wrote:

they were a total game changer

period 

Yea, the difference in both free climbing and big walling (esp the easy ones with actual cracks or expando) was immediate and souls were sold to build racks of friends.

You can imagine how exciting it was to get half sizes! ie 1 1/2" or 2 1/2".

The first TCU's were very exciting too. :) I had these funky swaged original versions I bought from Alan Watts IIRC. That was mid 80's. Who knows what they would have held.

I nailed Magic Mushroom to the Shield in 1979. I can't more explicitly explain the difference than by saying you used to have to nail a long splitter or tediously try to find hex placements versus leap frogging friends up that same crack in 1/10th the time.

Didnt mark hugedong and max jones get the last all “ passive “ ascent of astroman? Peter mayfield might have though, but even he admits he was 16-17 at the time 

Andrew. Most moderate classics were put up with 45 and 50m ropes. 60m is overkill on those climbs and 70m is a complete waste of time and effort unless the route has been rebolted for modern rappels. Usually not the case and we end up pulling a bunch of eaxtra rope through the chains on every rappel.  Example. In 1986 we did a bunch of climbs in Black velvet canyon. we rapped all of them with two 50m ropes.  no issues. Last time I was there we climbed with 60m half ropes. theoretically we carried around 20m of unused rope the whole time we were there. had we brought 70m ropes we would been lugging 40m of unused rope around all week..  

Idaho just banned nuts, at least the ones dangling from pickups.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Andrew. Most moderate classics were put up with 45 and 50m ropes. 60m is overkill on those climbs and 70m is a complete waste of time and effort unless the route has been rebolted for modern rappels. Usually not the case and we end up pulling a bunch of eaxtra rope through the chains on every rappel.  Example. In 1986 we did a bunch of climbs in Black velvet canyon. we rapped all of them with two 50m ropes.  no issues. Last time I was there we climbed with 60m half ropes. theoretically we carried around 20m of unused rope the whole time we were there. had we brought 70m ropes we would been lugging 40m of unused rope around all week..  

I've never thought of it that way. I think of my rope length as defining how long I can climb before finding a belay, rather than the rappels defining how long a rope should be. Two 50 meter ropes means carrying 100m of rope.

BITD did most of you use the rope for rigging anchors or were you carrying cordellettes? 

Alois Smrz wrote:

Andrew

50 meters, single, 11 mm, Kernmantle. Some people were still using Goldline ropes in the late 70s. .

Anecdotal 

1979—120’ X 7/16” Goldline, the soft hand sailing version that didn’t pull out “passive” gear. Schools used “Blueline”, military “Greenline” with the hard finish.

then upgrade to 45 meter 11m Edelrid the next year along with a #2 Friend

Fire shoes the next big move

Saw prototypes of TCUs, Sliders, 3 part sliders and drilled stoppers by a young man at Smith Rock made in his college machine shop. 

Ackley The Improved wrote:

Saw prototypes of TCUs, Sliders, 3 part sliders and drilled stoppers by a young man at Smith Rock made in his college machine shop. 

Steve Byrne.

Andrew Rice wrote:

BITD did most of you use the rope for rigging anchors or were you carrying cordellettes? 

Cordellettes weren't a thing until sometime in the later 90's. Personally I've never carried one - just do what's necessary with slings and rope.