New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #35

dragons wrote:

This is a pretty broad swipe at all politicians. If they are literally all that vile, then we're already done, man.

No kidding, but have they actually done this so far? It seems illegal to me, but "anything goes" these days, apparently. The current worst thing is the shipping of accused non-citizens to El Salvador. Because they are maybe possibly terrorists. Right. I consider this to be a human rights violation. One in a long tradition of them.

So what exactly can we do? Another peaceful protest. Sure, I'll go. I don't think it will do anything, but I will go to express my support. It is better than not going.

Back to your earlier post:

I understand why every nation would want to keep some manufacturing expertise of specific, security-related goods within the country - chips, drones, etc. I don't see it as "suppressing another nation for being better." Can you specifically point to something that you thought was wrong about the CHIPS act? To be clear, I think the current tariffs are insanity and/or corruption.

I don't think we should be trying to bring manufacturing jobs back to the US. I don't think China should be struggling to retain these jobs either. We should all be working together to automate all these manufacturing processes so that humans (of any country) are not forced to grind their lives away in factories, dying of horrible diseases in order to barely scrape by.

I get it, it's not easy, and it won't happen soon. (I don't even have my own robot butler yet.)

I didn't recall the US colonizing China. I just checked and the interwebs are saying no. That was someone else (Britain?). Are you using "we" as meaning "the west" in this case?

When throwing around accusations, we should not forget that there are few (or no?) countries that are innocent of vile behaviors (not to trigger you, but can you say "Uyghurs"?). This is a sad product of human behavior. I'm not saying this to defend or excuse the current goings-on, but as a reminder. I guess the US is just the latest guilty party, failing to meet our mediocre expectations. We try, we fail. It's f*n depressing.

Dragons, while I agree with about 99% of what you write here ( and mostly disagree with Li's comments), for the sake of historical accuracy, the reality is that the US, along with many other (mostly Western) countries did, in fact, have a colonial presence in China in the 19th/early 20th Century. It wasn't the 'direct control' form of colonialism that was common elsewhere ( including the US in the Philippines as one example), but through such things as territorial 'trading concessions' it was effectively the same. That is why the US Marines and Navy were among the forces that suppressed the nationalist Boxer Rebellion---at a substantial cost of Chinese life. Of course, the Chinese, too, had been a colonial power for many years. As you said, we are historically pretty much all 'guilty parties'.

Kim, as Wendy asked, could you please point us to any evidence of actual fraud and corruption, let alone 'widespread', uncovered by Trump, Musk, DOGE and their minions? So far, they have shared none. It is sort of like ( well, exactly like) the claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election---it's been over 4 years and 'they' have now been in power for over 3 months---but still not a shred of actual evidence.

The real corruption and fraud is that which will occur/ is already occurring now that they have destroyed or neutered pretty much all the systemic safeguards meant to prevent Trump, Musk, et al from stealing from all of us now--and from the future---including the public lands upon which we pursue our sport.

While, it is perfectly reasonable to disagree on such things as governmental spending priorities and the appropriate amount of regulation, it is sad, to put it mildly, that you are still happy to support the clear and accelerating destruction of our Constitution and the democratic republic that it established.

This is baffling to me because Kim is a super nice person  that I respect. How the heck do you take a dive into fascism? Trump is literally a rapist and is running the country like a black out drunk and here is someone that I like and respect saying that is a good thing.  Fucked up.  so baffling that I suspect he has been hacked. 

RKM wrote:

Seriously Bob?  I’m surprised and disappointed in you - that you would arrogantly paint with such a broad brush against more than half of the US population and a high percent of readers of this thread.  I totally am proud of and support President Trump - and more importantly his administration and DOGE that have exposed the complete corruption, fraud, abuse and waste of our hard earned tax dollars.  Pretty profound and hellacious statement that WE all should ‘crawl back into our hole’.

Kim Miller

US Population:

https://www.census.gov/popclock/

~342 million

Votes for Trump:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_election

~77 million

~22% voted for Trump

I doubt that % is as high among MP participants.

But I know actual facts have little interest/understanding of actual facts (or much else) to trump zealots

I hate to dive into this, but is RKM the same Kim Miller as the CEO of Scarpa USA and the climate change and natural resources advocate?  It would be super weird if so, and another nail in the coffin of my faith in humanity. 

Trump’s Tariffs, Biden’s Chip act both do one thing, suppress another nation for being better than the USA at what we in the West do and

Biden's infrastructure policies were voted in by LAW,  after a 2 year long process of negotiations of Congress & president.

Infrastructure spending and incentives are NOT tariffs.  They are methods to cause investment and growth in the USA manufacturing and economy and they are working.

State investment is EXACTLY what China has been doing on an EXTREMELY LARGE scale for 35 years.  Another large reason China's economic growth, besides cheap labor, is state supported theft and copying of western technology.

Tariffs, especially when changed daily based on a formula of golf score + trump tribute + insider deals and ginned up on a cardboard whim,  
are simply a tax and source of chaos that often does NOT lead to manufacturing investment.

I got some bouldering in a couple of days ago. Mostly, I watched the young, strong ones. And then I went off and had more fun climbing with their 7 & 9 year kids. 

We also had a fire on Hwy 6 and the Owens River. This is a picture a friend took from his campsite.

So sad, these personal attacks. Telling people to go somewhere else is just an awful sentiment. I sincerely hope we never loose Kim and Guy and Kris and other people who I know and love.

I do have love for RKM and Idaho Bob. Both very good people. With different opinions.

I have plenty of political opinions. I really don’t think I will make the world a better place by sharing them.

Perhaps I will say more later but I doubt it. I’m in between climbs so goodbye for now. 

Not trying to offend, just stating my own opinions - like so many with the opposite view have posted above.  But . . . .  One can always visit the official government website DOGE.Gov and see daily updates on what they find - specifics in the fraud, waste and abuse.  Are you saying all of this is untrue - billions and billions of fraudulent dollars?  The website has a place and ASK for comments back from disbelievers, questioners, or those calling BS.  Not a lot of takers.  Have any of you written in with a disagreement?   

Of course some might call the whole government website a ‘cheap fake’ like the videos of Biden, or ‘disinformation‘.  One can decide for themselves.  And, according to the website (cheap fakes - disinformation), only .015% of government workers were let go or fired.  All the other federal workers took the generous buyout or moved on by their own free will and choice.

So thats where I’m getting my corroboration data  wake and bake (and I would never go near a wide crack - yikes).  And I just assume that by 1) winning the popular vote, 2) the electoral college, 3) all 7 previous held democrat swing states and 4) greater than half of each of the individual counties in the individual states either gained republican voters or completely switch to voting for the rapist and felon that is might be ’more than half’.

It’s all good, have an enjoyable life.

Eric Engberg wrote:

US Population:

https://www.census.gov/popclock/

~342 million

Votes for Trump:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_election

~77 million

~22% voted for Trump

I doubt that % is as high among MP participants.

But I know actual facts have little interest/understanding of actual facts (or much else) to trump zealots

Also worth noting that even basing it only on people who voted rather than the full population he didn't get a majority of the votes cast with only 49.8 percent. Harris got 48.3 with the remainder going to 3rd party candidates. So in reality a majority of US voters preferred someone else.

RKM. Dodge has zero oversight. there is absolutely zero proof of actual fraud. they slash and burn. fire people for no reason, cancel cancer research. fire forests rangers and fire fighters.  You find fraud with accountants not code writers. 

phylp phylp wrote:

So sad, these personal attacks. Telling people to go somewhere else is just an awful sentiment. I sincerely hope we never loose Kim and Guy and Kris and other people who I know and love.

I do have love for RKM and Idaho Bob. Both very good people. With different opinions.

I have plenty of political opinions. I really don’t think I will make the world a better place by sharing them.

Perhaps I will say more later but I doubt it. I’m in between climbs so goodbye for now. 

You know what's worse than telling people to go somewhere else on an Internet forum? 

Sending innocent people to a concentration camp.

After all, isn’t climbing about the greatest thing we all share and enjoy.  Brings us all together in some form of communal efforts and relationships.  Opinions and persuasions are a small part of who we really are.  

Happy to have had 57 years of this - the most important part of my life.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

This is baffling to me because Kim is a super nice person  that I respect. How the heck do you take a dive into fascism? Trump is literally a rapist and is running the country like a black out drunk and here is someone that I like and respect saying that is a good thing.  Fucked up.  so baffling that I suspect he has been hacked. 

I've seen people I know and thought well of go down the fascist rabbit hole. There is a famous essay by Dorothy Thompson from way back in 1941. It's dated in some respects but is well worth a read.

Who goes Nazi

Alan Rubin wrote:

Dragons, while I agree with about 99% of what you write here ( and mostly disagree with Li's comments), for the sake of historical accuracy, the reality is that the US, along with many other (mostly Western) countries did, in fact, have a colonial presence in China in the 19th/early 20th Century.

Thanks for the additional context, Alan. This stuff was not covered in my history classes.

Switching over to climbing:

A stranger contacted me on another forum and suggested that I might climb with them to share my trad knowledge, such as it is. This person is probably genuine, seems new to trad climbing, and has a little bit of sport climbing experience.

What would you do? I've been climbing for many years, almost entirely with people at my level of experience, or well beyond it. Many total strangers took a risk and climbed with me when I contacted them out of the blue. Now I'm getting it from the other side - mostly wondering if this person might accidentally get me killed (they will be belaying). This is the first time I've been asked by someone with less experience to act in the mentor kind of role (probably "mentor" is an exaggerated description of what's being requested).

I can imagine lots of potential disaster scenarios. Anyone care to share advice, or horror stories?

Pic of Ken's Crack today, totally flooding, for the algorithm:

Frank Stein wrote:

I hate to dive into this, but is RKM the same Kim Miller as the CEO of Scarpa USA and the climate change and natural resources advocate?  It would be super weird if so, and another nail in the coffin of my faith in humanity. 

Kim Miller of Scarpa isn’t the same person as RKM. 

dragons wrote:

Thanks for the additional context, Alan. This stuff was not covered in my history classes.

Switching over to climbing:

A stranger contacted me on another forum and suggested that I might climb with them to share my trad knowledge, such as it is. This person is probably genuine, seems new to trad climbing, and has a little bit of sport climbing experience.

What would you do? I've been climbing for many years, almost entirely with people at my level of experience, or well beyond it. Many total strangers took a risk and climbed with me when I contacted them out of the blue. Now I'm getting it from the other side - mostly wondering if this person might accidentally get me killed (they will be belaying). This is the first time I've been asked by someone with less experience to act in the mentor kind of role (probably "mentor" is an exaggerated description of what's being requested).

I can imagine lots of potential disaster scenarios. Anyone care to share advice, or horror stories?

Pic of Ken's Crack today, totally flooding, for the algorithm:

Dragons, can you bring someone else ( someone you trust) to be a 'third pair of eyes', especially to observe your 'guest's' belaying? If you will be at the Gunks, you could first meet for breakfast somewhere and have a 'chat'--you can often get a good initial sense of them. Then--if you haven't run away already, go set-up a 'sling shot' top-rope --maybe around Brat/Handy Andy and observe them there. If that goes okay, go for a lead climb, but one on which it is highly unlikely that you will fall.

But, since, like you, I have often benefited from the kindness of strangers who welcomed me to climb with them when I showed up somewhere new and alone, I think it would be great for you to assist them.

RKM wrote:

So thats where I’m getting my corroboration data  wake and bake (and I would never go near a wide crack - yikes).  And I just assume that by 1) winning the popular vote, 2) the electoral college, 3) all 7 previous held democrat swing states and 4) greater than half of each of the individual counties in the individual states either gained republican voters or completely switch to voting for the rapist and felon that is might be ’more than half’.

It’s all good, have an enjoyable life.

Originally you said:

more than half of the US population

Not the voting population.  Big difference

RKM wrote:

Seriously Bob?  I’m surprised and disappointed in you - that you would arrogantly paint with such a broad brush against more than half of the US population and a high percent of readers of this thread.  I totally am proud of and support President Trump - and more importantly his administration and DOGE that have exposed the complete corruption, fraud, abuse and waste of our hard earned tax dollars.  Pretty profound and hellacious statement that WE all should ‘crawl back into our hole’.

Kim Miller

Kim … Thank you for saying that.

And as far as zero proof that DOGE cuts have produced any results. Politico- leftist’s favorite information spring - they couldn’t even make payroll starting day one  Jess Saying 

And cutting off $$$ to Universities that promote racism! I thought everyone would applaud that development. I know probably 99.9 of you supported the US Government when it defunded Bob Jones U.

So I’ll happily go crawl back into my hole and pop up in a week or so… but I’m going climbing now.

Later 

RKM wrote:

Not trying to offend, just stating my own opinions - like so many with the opposite view have posted above.  But . . . .  One can always visit the official government website DOGE.Gov and see daily updates on what they find - specifics in the fraud, waste and abuse.  Are you saying all of this is untrue - billions and billions of fraudulent dollars?  The website has a place and ASK for comments back from disbelievers, questioners, or those calling BS.  Not a lot of takers.  Have any of you written in with a disagreement?   

I would be very much in favor of rooting out waste, fraud, and abuse in the Federal government. However, sadly, DOGE's stated aims are a hoax. 

Here is an interesting story about a credible whistleblower who was on site when DOGE forced a "god level" login on an agency and what they did next. Likely this happened at the other agencies where they were known to have inserted themselves, but we don't have whistleblowers at those agencies: https://www.npr.org/2025/04/15/nx-s1-5355896/doge-nlrb-elon-musk-spacex-security

A few interesting snippets from the article:  

Within minutes after DOGE accessed the NLRB's systems, someone with an IP address in Russia started trying to log in, according to Berulis' disclosure. The attempts were "near real-time," according to the disclosure. Those attempts were blocked, but they were especially alarming. Whoever was attempting to log in was using one of the newly created DOGE accounts — and the person had the correct username and password, according to Berulis.

those staffers noticed a spike in data leaving the agency. It's possible that the data included sensitive information on unions, ongoing legal cases and corporate secrets — data that four labor law experts tell NPR should almost never leave the NLRB

Meanwhile, according to the disclosure and records of internal communications, members of the DOGE team asked that their activities not be logged on the system and then appeared to try to cover their tracks behind them, turning off monitoring tools and manually deleting records of their access

Cheers,

GO

RKM 

This is a climbing site, there is a political site for climbers and its called widefetish widefetish.com/forum/index.…

There is 0 wide content on the WF forum; in fact there is hardly any climbing content. There is a LOT of political yakking though.