New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #34

Brian in SLC wrote:

Reviewed my pic's from the day on that route (geez...2008).  I think I placed nothing but cams on the two "money" pitches.  Horizontals.  Quick to place and quick to clean.

That evil 00 Metolius TCU in the pic above...ha ha.

Partner has just cleaned one of my only sparse pieces on this long pitch...number 2 Camalot in a horizontal.  What a great route!

Different strokes for sure.  Concur there's nothing better than a good "keyholed" stopper placement.  But for me...I find cams pretty useful.  

As far as using someone else's gear...I much prefer my own but have never had an issue with a partner's rack.  Especially if they rack on a sling instead of their harness (another debate for sure!)...  But I'd very rarely use someone's rack besides my own on a route that I thought might push me a bit.  I do enjoy the variety of stuff folks carry but will generally pass on someone's tricams (!).  

Reminds me of a funny day a number of years ago (1990...yikes).  Was on a business trip in the Denver area and knew I'd have a half day off.  Really wanted to get something climbed in Eldo so I called around to Neptunes and Boulder Mountaineering and asked them for a few names off their bulletin board.  Got a hold of a guy who had the time (mid week, afternoon).  We traded info and I said I could bring all the gear, rope and rack, and he said not to worry about the rack, he had plenty.  Sounds good.  Wanted to do the Yellow Spur but an unknown partner and lack of time made it sound less doable.  So...Green Spur.  I picked the guy up in my rental car and off we went.  We're sizing each other up on the drive and he's saying some things that are giving me pause...like practicing leader falls by jumping off his dad's deck.  We get to the parking lot and jump out to start the hike.  He heads in the complete wrong direction for the route.  Another red flag.  Ok...  So, we get to the base of the route.  I flake the rope out and he pulls out the "rack".  Jumbled mess of strangely slung hexes and a few big nuts.  Maybe 8 pieces total.  I said, "uhh...I had a rack of gear we coulda used, which had a few cams."  He sternly replied..."oh, I don't believe in cams."  Ok then...your lead.  Up he goes.  Gets maybe 10 feet up and tries to fiddle in some gear.  Really gettin' worked.  Climbs another foot or two and manages to get something to stick but really starts whining about how there's no way the route could be the grade advertised and I hear the magic word:  "TAKE".  He hangs.  Futzes around.  Hangs some more. So I offer to lead and lower him down.  He's making all kinds of noise about the route and on and on.  I sort through and try to organize the gear.  Off we go, clean his top piece, climb a bit, clip a fixed piece or two and manage a few gear placements and hit the belay.  Good route!  Really fun.  The whole time I feel these eyes on us.  A couple of salty locals on Grandma's next to us.  I put my partner on belay and he tries to climb up.  Painfully obvious now that he has very little experience especially with this type of climbing.  Well...poor feller, the guys next to us start berating him.  Loudly.  One asked me, "hey, were'd you find that guy?  Nice climbing partner."  They're yelling at him that he has no business in the canyon and on and on.  Part of me felt bad for him...and part felt like it was deserved but maybe not delivered with such vitriol.  I finally winch him up to the belay.  He's crying.  I ask if he wants to go back down and call it a day.  "Yeah"...he sniffs through the tears.  I lowered him (really didn't want to find out if he could rappel).  Off we went and never saw him again.  Still...was a pretty fun afternoon out and I still have a good memory of the day.  Good times!  Ha ha.

" Ok then...your lead" very funny, I  feel as if I've been there a few times with over zealous sketchers. It's definitely all about squeezing out the good day without dying! It makes me feel for the guides who have to put the randos in charge of the belay frequently 

I love cams but know the difference between a micro cam placement that may or may not actually hold a real fall and a small stopper that I know will hold a fall. I have and like my 00 gray metulous but would rather not have it be the only piece between me and the hospital .. 

A month or so ago I posted that, so far, this winter might be the second in 30 years during which I have not used the snow blower.

This storm's getting close though. Another hour or two of this and I'll have to at least clear the lower driveway so I can get out to climb in the low county tomorrow.

The girls don't care though. They just want (demand) frisbee-in-the-snow time.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

I love cams but know the difference between a micro cam placement that may or may not actually hold a real fall and a small stopper that I know will hold a fall. I have and like my 00 gray metulous but would rather not have it be the only piece between me and the hospital .. 

I hear ya, but...  I've been in the hospital when a stopper didn't hold a fall...(bad rock and pilot error and I was pushing my luck).  Remote area in the West Desert of Utah.  1910 medicine in the Delta Utah ER reminds me to tell friends heading that way to drive to Provo or SLC if they can manage to hang on.  My two longest falls (50 feet plus) were from failed stopper placements.  Not blaming the stoppers, but...in both of those cases they didn't exceed my expectations...ha ha.

That said, I've seen a #2 HB micro keep a friend off the deck in a really hard 30-foot fall.  Only piece between him and the ground.  He went over backwards and I remember his saucer sized eyes with that life-ending look of terror in them.  Still have that bent cable piece.  Whew.

I had a couple of lead falls in Zion on small cams that had no business staying in the rock.  One was a blue TCU that rode a corner crack down around a foot in soft rock before it caught me.  Thankful as the bolt I'd placed below that (last piece before the ground) had fallen halfway out of the sugary hole I'd drilled.  The other was that 00 TCU.  Long thin aid pitch up a small crack.  I'd been a bit stingy back cleaning cams up a thin crack and was probably around a 150 or so feet up the pitch.  Last decent piece was the 00 on only two of the three cams.  I'd climbed and back cleaned a number of placements when I was bouncing lightly on a piece that blew.  30 or 40 foot fall onto that 00 with not much else below for a loooong ways.  Darn thing held.  No doubt being far out on the pitch kept the fall factor low enough to really help.  Scared the crap out of me.  Managed to lead through.  Kinda cured me of thin aid on sandstone.

Ahhh...youth.  Ha ha.  Good times.  Cheers!

Brian in SLC wrote:

I hear ya, but...  I've been in the hospital when a stopper didn't hold a fall...(bad rock and pilot error and I was pushing my luck).  Remote area in the West Desert of Utah.  1910 medicine in the Delta Utah ER reminds me to tell friends heading that way to drive to Provo or SLC if they can manage to hang on.  

Having lived in the west desert….good advice!  We went to Provo for anything important 

Brian in SLC wrote:

Was a heckuva pile of climbing Fred did with Heinrich Harrer and Henry Meybohm in 1954.  FA's of both Deborah and Hunter.  Not to mention Fred and his crew climbing Cook's original attempted line on Denali:  the NW Buttress.

Beckey's Alpine Journal "Climbs in Alaska, 1954"

Nice photo's!

1954! Beckey’s need to try to keep climbing routes into his 80s and 90s even though he couldn’t even handle the approaches is mind blowing. This seems like an appropriate film for this thread. I’m sure most have seen it. Mostly, I like how he just throws down a pad and a bag and crashes anywhere. Inspirational.

https://www.redbull.com/us-en/films/dirtbag-the-legend-of-fred-beckey

Good tales Brian. Yikes. I also loved aid climbing in Zion back in the day but I too decided to move on from soft sandstone aid . Glad you survived your youth to put up so many routes in your more mature years for us all to enjoy. And also thanks for all your useful beta here on MP. 

Most places in the Desert cams are better than stoppers.. Red rocks I recall had great stopper placements.. all bets are off when climbing mud.. 

Brian in SLC wrote:

I hear ya, but...  I've been in the hospital when a stopper didn't hold a fall...(bad rock and pilot error and I was pushing my luck).  Remote area in the West Desert of Utah.  1910 medicine in the Delta Utah ER reminds me to tell friends heading that way to drive to Provo or SLC if they can manage to hang on.  My two longest falls (50 feet plus) were from failed stopper placements.  Not blaming the stoppers, but...in both of those cases they didn't exceed my expectations...ha ha.

That said, I've seen a #2 HB micro keep a friend off the deck in a really hard 30-foot fall.  Only piece between him and the ground.  He went over backwards and I remember his saucer sized eyes with that life-ending look of terror in them.  Still have that bent cable piece.  Whew.

I had a couple of lead falls in Zion on small cams that had no business staying in the rock.  One was a blue TCU that rode a corner crack down around a foot in soft rock before it caught me.  Thankful as the bolt I'd placed below that (last piece before the ground) had fallen halfway out of the sugary hole I'd drilled.  The other was that 00 TCU.  Long thin aid pitch up a small crack.  I'd been a bit stingy back cleaning cams up a thin crack and was probably around a 150 or so feet up the pitch.  Last decent piece was the 00 on only two of the three cams.  I'd climbed and back cleaned a number of placements when I was bouncing lightly on a piece that blew.  30 or 40 foot fall onto that 00 with not much else below for a loooong ways.  Darn thing held.  No doubt being far out on the pitch kept the fall factor low enough to really help.  Scared the crap out of me.  Managed to lead through.  Kinda cured me of thin aid on sandstone.

Ahhh...youth.  Ha ha.  Good times.  Cheers!

Stories like this make me wonder how some of us survived our youth!

Emil Briggs wrote:

Stories like this make me wonder how some of us survived our youth!

Sadly many didn’t.

John Gill wrote:

Lori, it is time for you to start assembling your commentaries into book form. You have a very interesting story to tell, an odyssey that touches all dimensions of human life, that finds you now wandering up and down the fascinating granite labyrinth of JT. When I read your posts I think of a friend of mine, Zofia Reych, who wrote of her journey as a climber and how the sport developed over the years. 

John, thank you.

I read somewhere yesterday that the purpose of one’s life is “to serve others “. For most of my life, I thought this was true. But at this time, working my way into senior years, I can’t seem to serve anyone anymore. 

In a way life is very disoriented right now. I have three kids and seven grandkids out there somewhere who I love passionately. The grandkids are growing up without me. I somehow still have a tiny business in Northern California, run by my office manager and my daughter, and every now and then I wonder if I should go back. I could probably make some money and sharpen up my brain.  But when I picture life in front of a computer, it gives me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.

I have no business clothes left in my wardrobe. I don’t own a decent pair of shoes. I have no fingernails left to speak of—climbing and manicures don’t work together.  I take off almost every day and spend hours hiking and exploring alone. Sometimes I feel like I have gone feral just out there hanging out with the ravens and coyotes and watching the bees and then reluctantly returning home. 

It kills me not to be the Dr. Seuss-reading grandparent or the one who babysits so the parents can have a night out. But when I do find an interesting rock or specimen or picture of a desert tortoise or snake, I send it to my family. The grandkids want to tell me that they are now climbers.

 I will have a look at the video you posted. Thank you so much for your thoughts.  

Meanwhile, what do you know but this picture showed up on my Facebook feed yesterday and I saw the words The Gill Crack. WHAT?  So I had to dig it up, of course, and read the comments, especially the one by John Long. John, you did this?  OMG.

As I see more and more pictures and descriptions with your name attached, your story is becoming more clear. I hope you have or are writing a book.   

I’d be really interested to know what other people‘s lives are like today. And what it feels like to have once “had a life“.   

Might as well clean the driveway even though it's only six inches.

A little work for me, but play for them:

Colden Dark wrote:

1954! Beckey’s need to try to keep climbing routes into his 80s and 90s even though he couldn’t even handle the approaches is mind blowing. This seems like an appropriate film for this thread. I’m sure most have seen it. Mostly, I like how he just throws down a pad and a bag and crashes anywhere. Inspirational.

https://www.redbull.com/us-en/films/dirtbag-the-legend-of-fred-beckey

Such a great movie!

I learned so much about him.  

I never realized that he had had a HUGE falling out with the expedition climbing crowd over leaving his partner on Lhotse in the tent and descending back down in the '50's. Tough to really know what happened without actually being there.

Also just LOVED that line about the neighbor asking the guy, "Why do you make your grandpa sleep in the driveway" after Beckey had rolled up and thrown down his sleeping bag in the guys driveway late at night.

One of my best friends and partners, Geoff Tabin, has a ton of stories about climbing with him and also about getting thrown out of bars with him!

Definitely worth the watch if you've not seen it.

If anyone is still vacillating over getting the shingles jab, there is increasing evidence that some of the vaccines help reduce dementia risk. 

Lori, are you aware of Pat Ament's Master of Rock? Here's a review from the AAJ when it first came out. The reviewer's thoughts somewhat mirror my own in that the author tells us almost as much about himself as about Mr Gill. It was re-issued around 5 years ago as paperback and e-book but with fewer photos than previous editions so might be worth looking for a second hand copy of the latter. 

Lori Milas wrote:

As I see more and more pictures and descriptions with your name attached, your story is becoming more clear. I hope you have or are writing a book.   

Here's an oldy but a goody:

Lori Milas wrote:

If you had any doubt about getting the Shingrix shot, this study appears to be just one more reason to get it. While the authors did not say 100% that there is a causal relationship but the vaccine was seen to have an effect on preventing dementia as well!

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-025-08800-x 

Buck Rogers wrote:

If you had any doubt about getting the Shingrix shot, this study appears to be just one more reason to get it. While the authors did not say 100% that there is a causal relationship but the vaccine was seen to have an effect on preventing dementia as well!

There is a lot of epidemiological evidence linking various viral infections with the development of various neurodegenerative diseases. EBV is now believed to be a major risk factor for the development of MS. Various viral infections from HepB, HSV, for example, have been associated with increased risk of Parkinson’s. Mechanism of action completely unclear but perhaps autoimmune. 

Just make sure you get the Shingrix vaccine and not the Zostavax one which isn't nearly as effective, especially as you get older.

phylp phylp wrote:

There is a lot of epidemiological evidence linking various viral infections with the development of various neurodegenerative diseases. EBV is now believed to be a major risk factor for the development of MS. Various viral infections from HepB, HSV, for example, have been associated with increased risk of Parkinson’s. Mechanism of action completely unclear but perhaps autoimmune. 

Yes, absolutely!

The neurosurgeon that I went to Iraq with was convinced that we should all be on low dose Valtrex for life for the neuroprotective properties!

Now being a neurosurgeon he was an "odd" duck anyways,  bloody BRILLIANT but odd, no doubt!

Lori Milas wrote:

I have had this video of Randy Leavitt on my mind for weeks.  If you can ignore the terrible music... or skip to about minute 11... is this an ok level of exertion for an old person? (not the grade of the climb, but the level of exertion and hard work).  Seriously asking.  

  

I only watched a few minutes, starting around minute 11, as you suggested.  Just my opinion, but as far as I'm concerned, that's just what "try hard" looks like.  This level of exertion is nothing special.  I'm sure sometimes when I try hard, I look like I'm going to blow a gasket.  Maybe some day I will.  Or maybe I'll just stop trying hard before that day comes.  I guess that's just one's choice.  Keep in mind, I'm only mid fifties, so take this with a grain of salt.

GO