Hot Takes 2025

B Ywrote:

We did it folks

Hot Take: Most crag dogs are great, and it's a small fraction of bad dogs/owners that give the rest a bad rap. I've never brought a dog to the crag, but I have loved almost every one that I have encountered (with a couple MAJOR exceptions).

Hot Take - 

Dudes in their 20's are way more annoying than even the average crag dog

almostradwrote:

Hot Take - 

Dudes in their 20's are way more annoying than even the average crag dog

Dudes […] are […] more annoying than […] dog[s]

Jabroni McChufferson wrote:

Dudes{ ….}annoying {…..} dog(s)

[…] dog

Climbing Weaselwrote:

[…] dog

My…? Dawg??

If it's a bit warm out, removing your shirt will improve climbing performance. Only those jealous of your beautiful body will be offended.

Dirtbag Betawrote:

If it's a bit warm out, removing your shirt will improve climbing performance. Only those jealous of your beautiful body will be offended.

What if you have Rush Limbaugh’s soft shitty body?

If you find yourself apologizing for your dog, or ignoring it, don’t bring it to the crag.  

Edit: Same for any partner.

Calebwrote:

What if you have Rush Limbaugh’s soft shitty body?

No-body is shitty. 

Calebwrote:

If you find yourself apologizing for your dog, or ignoring it, don’t bring it to the crag.  

Edit: Same for any partner.

A hot take would be the exact inverse of this

Climbing Weaselwrote:

 Crack climbing is tedious and overly painful compared to face climbing

My shoulders disagree

The hiking uphill/downhill right of way etiquette makes sense for cars and bikes where going uphill is difficult and maintaining momentum is important... It makes no sense for people on foot. Especially not when trail running considering risks of deceleration injuries for the one running downhill when they have to suddenly stop and the uphill one is likely very happy to take a short break to catch their breath. Many trails are wide enough that no one should feel the need to stop at all in the vast majority of places. (ex. Grand Canyon Rim2Rim)

When a trail runner or hiker is out of breath and passing you coming the opposite way, no verbal acknowledgement at all of the others existence should be necessary from either party. A small nod is totally sufficient.

People complaining about what guides don't teach clients assume all to often that the clients are actually getting a gym to crag class instead of just getting some easy crag guiding with minor instruction. You can't fit it all in an 8h day and still have time to climb... and clients want to climb. You compromise and tailor the outing to what the client asks for, whether that is pitches and you just belay all day or instruction and you mostly talk all day. Or more likely, somewhere in between where they get a little bit of instruction and still a lot of climbing. Try making a curriculum of all that you would want to teach a noob from understanding guidebooks, crag ethics, safety checks, communication, lead and TR belaying, leading, knots, anchor building, cleaning vs rapping, friction hitches, firemans, rock quality, trad (can of worms), (... self rescue?, partner rescue, aid, TRS, LRS)... it will quickly balloon when you actually start writing it down and try to build in realistic time needed to talk about it and realistic time the clients will need to practice it for it to stick... and you will realize, its more like a week or more to cover it all... and that's ambitious. None of us learned all we needed in 8h. It was some solid times of instruction and a lot of small tidbits we learned gradually over time from friends, strangers, videos, books, forums... or hard knocks.

Jared Ewrote:

My shoulders disagree

Not to derail the thread but my feet and hands hurt way more after crack climbs than my shoulders do after face climbing. Joint and bone pain vs muscle soreness. 

Climbing Weaselwrote:

Not to derail the thread but my feet and hands hurt way more after crack climbs than my shoulders do after face climbing. Joint and bone pain vs muscle soreness. 

My shoulders suck and my ape is -1 so the fact that I continue climbing is mostly a middle finger to my genetics

Desert Rock Sportswrote:
People complaining about what guides don't teach clients assume all to often that the clients are actually getting a gym to crag class instead of just getting some easy crag guiding with minor instruction. You can't fit it all in an 8h day and still have time to climb... and clients want to climb. You compromise and tailor the outing to what the client asks for, whether that is pitches and you just belay all day or instruction and you mostly talk all day. Or more likely, somewhere in between where they get a little bit of instruction and still a lot of climbing. Try making a curriculum of all that you would want to teach a noob from understanding guidebooks, crag ethics, safety checks, communication, lead and TR belaying, leading, knots, anchor building, cleaning vs rapping, friction hitches, firemans, rock quality, trad (can of worms), (... self rescue?, partner rescue, aid, TRS, LRS)... it will quickly balloon when you actually start writing it down and try to build in realistic time needed to talk about it and realistic time the clients will need to practice it for it to stick... and you will realize, its more like a week or more to cover it all... and that's ambitious. None of us learned all we needed in 8h. It was some solid times of instruction and a lot of small tidbits we learned gradually over time from friends, strangers, videos, books, forums... or hard knocks.

I certainly agree most shit shows from gumbies at crags didn't take any classes and that taking a class puts you ahead of the game and much less likely to cause a shit show. Multiple schools here in NorCal have a sort of "101" series that you have to take before you can take their more advanced classes, or you have to prove proficiency to enter the more advanced classes. 

I think an additional day of instruction in the "101" series would be good, or even a take home pamphlet that tells you how not to be a dick at the crag. 

Desert Rock Sportswrote:

The hiking uphill/downhill right of way etiquette makes sense for cars and bikes where going uphill is difficult and maintaining momentum is important... It makes no sense for people on foot. Especially not when trail running considering risks of deceleration injuries for the one running downhill when they have to suddenly stop and the uphill one is likely very happy to take a short break to catch their breath. Many trails are wide enough that no one should feel the need to stop at all in the vast majority of places. (ex. Grand Canyon

Nope. Still harder going uphill. Just because someone is running down hill doesn’t mean they don’t have to be in control. Most gladly get out of the way but they certainly don’t have to. 

Climbing Weaselwrote:

Gatekeeping crags is silly. 

I disagree. Hot take, opening the gate in 2025 is a sure way to ruin a place.

Keep the gate shut, don't post on social media, don't post on instagram, don't add it to MP or theCrag! Only share in real life.

Tal Mwrote:

There's an inverse correlation between the amount of climbing in an area (let's say, weekend trip range) and the quality of its local climbing community, i.e. the less climbing available, the better the climbing community. Buy-in is found where buy-in is required.

Note: this stops once the amount of climbing in an area hits "zero" - sorry Florida, Louisiana, etc.

I think it might have something more to do with how “easy” it is to climb in an area. For example, you might visit an area known for its steep juggy sandstone and find a bunch of “lode-bros” and college students taking themselves far too seriously and being entirely uninvested in the climbing area they frequent.
However, a bit further east, at an area known for slightly more runout sport climbing and slightly more old school ethics, you’ll find a lively group of locals who love their home crag and are very invested in making it nice 

I've got two after this past weekend:

1. Sport climbers in a party of 4 on a mega classic multi-pitch adjacent to a mega classic trad route figuring out how to rappel the only descent route while holding up 6 people behind them to the point where we have to go down in the dark is a terrible, terrible look. FFS, if you don't have rope management skills and you're not comfortable rappelling, that's not the place to learn. 
2. Rapping with an ATC will never be as fast to setup and get down as my AlpineUp, a smart alpine, or a megajul. 

The aspiring bigwall climber should be proficient at offwidth climbing up to 5.10+ as a means to an end. 

Offwidth climbing for its own sake is a disgusting practice for those whose self-loathing exceeds their athletic abilities. It should be banned and certainly never celebrated