New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #34

May I ramble on a familiar topic for a moment? I apologize if this gets old. I have been on the hunt for new and fresh ways of talking about age and aging. Words matter.

Maybe because I started climbing late in life I’m not ready to throw in the towel yet. I really wanted to learn to climb, leaving behind all labels. I wanted to approach the rock as just “me“, whatever I could do. That’s an extremely hard challenge because there is almost always the condition attached “great for your age.“ But I never wanted an excuse.

When I started this thread a few years back, it was just because I was standing in the parking lot at intersection rock feeling very bewildered , watching 29-year-old young men and women head out to climb , but not seeing any people my age. I just wanted to know if there were older climbers.  But that “over 50“ has frequently come to mean old codger, broken, ancient, duffer, decrepit.  May I throw in “non-sexual” at least for the ladies.?  it’s bad enough what the outside world chucks at us, we sling a lot of shit at ourselves.  Maybe we ought to stop it. 

 A lot of assumptions are made based strictly on age – – and now I would include the medical establishment. The doctors I have at Kaiser have advised me to always include a climbing picture anytime I send a message or come in for a visit.  One told me it cuts through all the assumptions.

When I think of the folks we’ve come to know here, I feel such respect and admiration. Age has brought wisdom, strength, technical skill, beyond what any young person could fathom. Those who still have careers – – you appear to be at your peak. Nick blows my mind with every post. Todd is raising a family and climbs and is a veterinarian. Buck… OMG.  Phylp. Ward, Alan. Carl.  Not good “for your age” – – just GOOD.   

Maybe Carl said it best about 10,000 posts ago when he called me on “self-deprecation”.  OK it’s not easy being an older, inexperienced woman learning to rock climb—. But every time I speak words of decay, ineptitude, self loathing – – my body hears it and believes it.  Lately I’ve been saying “of course I can“ and more and more often I can.

End of rant.

Picture just because I love pictures and this was a very hard climb. (For my age.   ) 

Daniel Joderwrote:

A February El Chorro trip (southern Spain, an hour from Málaga)... to get everyone excited to check it out. Richard Aiken lives there half of the year so is the resident expert for us visiting expats--and he has some nice properties you can rent during your stay. If you want more of the international traveling climber/semi-dirtbag experience, stay at the Olive Branch (or at least take your meals there--food was awesome, big portions, and very reasonable). La Finca is another popular option. Oh, and rental cars out of Málaga can be had for a song. Definitely worth checking out. I have a list of about 4-5 multipitch climbs (4 to 12 pitches) I want to go back and do, ranging from about 5.6 through low 5.10. Obviously there is plenty of hard sport climbing for those interested in that (on the “easier” side, Google "Bladerunner", a really fine 6a sport route!).

Richard, you had a post somewhere on MP filled with all kinds of good El Chorro info and I can't seem to find it. Can you find it and paste it for us?

Dainel, Here is the URL:

mountainproject.com/forum/topic/125378833/el-chorro-beta-from-an-ec-resident 

@Lori, having followed you here on MP for some time I don't think of you as inexperienced. Hurray for positive thoughts to go with your inquisitiveness. Thank-you. :)

Buck Rogerswrote:

Woah!!!  Gorgeous!  

Where in Maine, if you do not mind me asking?

I have a few objectives there as well to knock out before I get "too broken" to really do some longer approaches!

Looks like South Wall area in Acadia National Park? Beautiful there

Buck Rogerswrote:

Woah!!!  Gorgeous!  

Where in Maine, if you do not mind me asking?

I have a few objectives there as well to knock out before I get "too broken" to really do some longer approaches!

Acadia.

 Mentioning long approaches, I do long hikes and long climbs separately these days! If they have to go together, a hike in the day before is my choice, I'm soft like that.

Buck Rogerswrote:

I'm just going to throw this out here as I feel that everyone here on this thread is not a true "Rando" like I would find in the Partner Forum.  I've had some great luck in the Partner Forum but I also had one that was NOT a great match so I'll try here first!

Seems a number of you are in the Northeast so maybe I'll get lucky!

I'm looking to climb the Northeast Ridge of Pinnacle Gully and the Diagonal in the Daks sooner than later once the weather clears enough for it.

Now I know that this is the "old person" thread and that each of these climbs have brutal hikes in and out (multi-hour approaches) but I would love to link up with one (or more) of you if you are up for either of those!

I have been climbing since '86, have a current WFRer, did my SPI 5 years ago (expired now), am an M.D. surgeon, like to think that I have a "cool head" when the "fun" starts, and also like to think that I am a pretty positive person.  I have way too many ropes and a pretty much full Yosemite rack!

Also, I am perhaps overly safe.  I've come to realize that there is no mountain (actually mountain, not metaphorical) worth dying on for me.  I've back off climbs in the last few years secondary to weather.  

Only leading up to .7 trad but I am prepared to aid the final two pitches of The Diagonal (and have the ability and equipment) if it comes to it and can follow harder if someone wants to lead the .8 variation on the NE Ridge or the final two pitches of the Diagonal.

Anyways, let me know if this is something that you are willing and wanting and able to do and we'll work out a time to get on one or both of them!

seven-one-nine-508-0706 (not sure why everyone does that with the numbers but perhaps it keeps the bots from adding you to spam lists???

It's not bragging, not in the least, but I found the hike into Wallface to be fairly easy. Not short, but most of it was flat, except for scrambling through the boulder field, and that wasn't bad. The Pinnacle is really fun, absolutely beautiful place to be. 

apogeewrote:

Ouch. This didn't seem to fit me at first glance, but after a bit of thought, yep...that's about right. Ouch.

I'm reading Heinlein's 'Time Enough for Love' right now- I've been aware of it for many decades, and some recent events inspired diving in to it right now. It's not been an easy read so far, but I'm only about a third of the way into it. Many of those here in this thread might appreciate the character of Lazarus Long, the Howard family, and the concept of 'rejuvenation' and living for hundreds of years.

Been reading Heinlein since the late 70's or so... if you like that one, try Methuselah's Children, a prequel to Time Enough for Love.

Lori Milaswrote:

May I ramble on a familiar topic for a moment? 

When I started this thread a few years back, ....

Wait ...what?!?!?  Lori!  

You started this madness that is my daily favourite read?

Well, thanks for that!  Love it!

And I love your daily "Ramblings" as well.  As a fellow vocal "rambler" I feel right at home!  ;)

M M:  Oh Acadia!  So lovely.  I spent a non-climbing vacation there many years ago when we only had 2 kiddos and they were just so young.  So beautiful!  Isn't there some amazing climb that you have to rap down to the ocean and then climb back up?  Story of O or something like that?  I know that I have one like that there on my list!

Emil: As for driving in and hiking down, I'll have to check when they open the autoroad as that is a possibility! 

WF WF:  Good to know!  Which approach did you do?  Looks like there are two of them to Wallface.  One is from Loj and there is another one that I cannot remember right now!   

Right!  Pretty sure that is my daily limit!

Climb On!

Alan Rubinwrote:

There is an iconic photo from that expedition ( or a similar one involving him--Annapurna South Face, maybe) of a far from svelte Whillans holding an umbrella walking past and exchanging 'looks' with a very emasciated-appearing Hindu pilgrim.

This is a cropped version rendered in Black and White, I think Greg Child took the original colour photo. 

Whillans is trekking to Shivling Base Camp in 1981, when Doug Scott, Rick White, Child and Georges Bettembourg climbed the east pillar. Whillans did not take part in the technical climbing. 

Buck Rogerswrote:

Wait ...what?!?!?  Lori!  

You started this madness that is my daily favourite read?

Well, thanks for that!  Love it!

And I love your daily "Ramblings" as well.  As a fellow vocal "rambler" I feel right at home!  ;)

M M:  Oh Acadia!  So lovely.  I spent a non-climbing vacation there many years ago when we only had 2 kiddos and they were just so young.  So beautiful!  Isn't there some amazing climb that you have to rap down to the ocean and then climb back up?  Story of O or something like that?  I know that I have one like that there on my list!

Emil: As for driving in and hiking down, I'll have to check when they open the autoroad as that is a possibility! 

WF WF:  Good to know!  Which approach did you do?  Looks like there are two of them to Wallface.  One is from Loj and there is another one that I cannot remember right now!   

Right!  Pretty sure that is my daily limit!

Climb On!

Quite a while ago, but it was not from the Loj. 

Pinnacle - Driving in and hiking down is - or was, I don't know if things have changed - possible. Done it both ways, Driving, parking, and hiking down is pretty easy. 

Lori Milaswrote:

I’m indulging here in a sweet moment. I was climbing Torturer’s Apprentice (10c) and not sure whether the crux was still ahead—where I had bailed last time.  When Bob said it was behind me I got so excited I almost fell.  “Don’t fall now!”    I’ve only used a GoPro a few times but those few videos are great memories.  

if I made it to the top then what was the problem? Probably a wobble along the way but I’m so anxious to go back.

I like this kind of go pro footage.  I know some people don't like it, but I think that that is just a subjective preference.  For me, this kind of footage is better than mere climbing photos from afar.  You get a sense of the actual climb and the difficulties, including the comments like, "Where did I crash last time?"

Geez....2 or 3 pages, lol!

Anyway, fossil, that isn't a cantilevered room, it's empty space on 3 edges up top. Originally, the City balked at actual 2 story building, but, they were okay with a "bonus room". So that's all special trussing, engineered stuff, to cradle the bedroom. It was supposed to be a steeper pitch to the roof, but when all the stuff arrived, some how it ended up as the pitch you see....

And effectively a 2 story building. But not functionally. And, the structure is such that those spaces wouldn't ever be able to get used, down the road, although before it got finished and that patio part closed in, one of the local semi feral kitties did enjoy cruising around in there.

Also, my contractor has an engineering degree. 

Okay, old.

I think that "for your age" thing, when it comes from someone qualified, means exactly that. Your demographic usually is worse off then you are. But everyone else?

I think it's code for "oh god. How the hell are they managing this??? I can't even do______". Chagrin. 

Then there's the extreme sad fact of the fitness level of average Americans of any age. Not even fitness, just chronic inactivity, like your friend who gives you such sadness. She's the norm.

So yeah, I've been dealing with builders and such gor a year now.

And a whole bunch of people way way younger than I?

Think I'm a badass.

Not even the climbing.

Just.... functioning. At what I don't consider to be anything exceptional at all. Building a fence, moving dirt around, gardening and landscaping, whacking stuff off overgrown trees, hardscaping....

Just doing stuff. And I am not fit, and definitely overweight. 

None of the stuff I do, and enjoy, is anything a few thousand years of people before me didn't do. 

But, again, sadly, I'm an outlier.

But then..... I've seen the incredulous look when people learn I'm a rock climber. Short, unfit, old, overweight. And started as an old lady. But....

I also see that question mark ...

"If she can do THAT, maybe I can... "

And that, m'dear, is why I continue to label meself old.

Because old is just chronology. 

H.

BY the time that shot of  Whillans was taken he was routinely getting skipped over for the British expeditions that he felt he should have been included in the A team and feeling rather bitter about it. He was not on the list for various reasons including lack of fitness but also personality issues. . 

Speaking of Maine

Full Sail. One of the best 5.6's anywhere with only two 5.7 moves on it. 

duncan...wrote:

This is a cropped version rendered in Black and White, I think Greg Child took the original colour photo. 

Whillans is trekking to Shivling Base Camp in 1981, when Doug Scott, Rick White, Child and Georges Bettembourg climbed the east pillar. Whillans did not take part in the technical climbing. 

That’s one of the all time klassic fotos! 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

BY the time that shot of  Whillans was taken he was routinely getting skipped over for the British expeditions that he felt he should have been included in the A team and feeling rather bitter about it. He was not on the list for various reasons including lack of fitness but also personality issues. . 

Speaking of Maine

Full Sail. One of the best 5.6's anywhere with only two 5.7 moves on it. 

Funny how that climb never comes to my mind when thinking about 'best pitch for the grade' , it's gotta be a top ten pitch for the grade. Certainly not a fresh out of the gym grade, especially since the next easiest one is around 10d old school 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

BY the time that shot of  Whillans was taken he was routinely getting skipped over for the British expeditions that he felt he should have been included in the A team and feeling rather bitter about it. He was not on the list for various reasons including lack of fitness but also personality issues.

I spoke with Joe Brown 22 years ago, and he brought up Whillans, saying he tried to talk him into changing his lifestyle, but to no avail. 

Incidentally, Joe found that it was better for him to boulder in nailed boots than in the new rock climbing shoes. Lots of rain over there.

I used to "joke" I was haunted by the ghost of Don Whillans. I never knew exactly what I meant by that. I still don't. But I'm not haunted by him anymore. I guess I made my peace with his legend, his curse, and myself.

We always do  Full Sail as two pitches for the photos, position and rope drag. It's got the bolted belay so why not. We always do it twice so we both get to lead both pitches.. 

 Got out today for what might be the last steep ice of the season. looks like some pretty warm days coming up... 

A pretty big hike  and looking at 300ft of really fun ice. 

it got steep pretty quick

My young friend Reed following the first pitch

the 2nd pitch was delicate and technical.

actually free standing

did the delicate dance  to the view. 

rapping down 

Reed coming down

If this is the last steep ice of the season it was a Gud one :)

Nick, did any of us ever ask if you made your living as a photographer at some point? Your pics are always such a treat!

One of my good buddies is a devoted ice climber, and a rock climber when the season means that's what he's stuck with. But he truly loves ice.

So, he is a very very fit man, knows what he's doing, bodywise. Lifts regularly, works out, all the stuff.

Ahead of ice season?

He beefs up. Changes how he trains.

Ice climbing trips? He packs in a bazillion calories. 

Then, post ice, he goes back to his normal beefcake self.

Now, I met him pretty early on in my climbing career, so he was in his 30s then. He is just entering his 40s now, so it remains to be seen if he can "tweak" his physique at will as he gets older. 

I do know, as a daddy to 2 young boys, he is pickier now about his partners, and his objectives.

H.

Helen , Photography was my only gig for about a decade.  i still have a photography business nkgphoto.com but its fairly back burner as I am mostly a carpenter. Heck I still haven't changed my address and phone number on the photo website since moving up here.  In a weak moment I agreed to do a bunch of weekend photo gigs this summer , spring and fall. Going to hate myself if the carpentry picks up and I have a busy summer.  looks like I also have to update my website  as well...  microsoft changed something and now you have to add some new  level of authentication or they  block your site. just more money..