New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #34

A February El Chorro trip (southern Spain, an hour from Málaga)... to get everyone excited to check it out. Richard Aiken lives there half of the year so is the resident expert for us visiting expats--and he has some nice properties you can rent during your stay. If you want more of the international traveling climber/semi-dirtbag experience, stay at the Olive Branch (or at least take your meals there--food was awesome, big portions, and very reasonable). La Finca is another popular option. Oh, and rental cars out of Málaga can be had for a song. Definitely worth checking out. I have a list of about 4-5 multipitch climbs (4 to 12 pitches) I want to go back and do, ranging from about 5.6 through low 5.10. Obviously there is plenty of hard sport climbing for those interested in that (on the “easier” side, Google "Bladerunner", a really fine 6a sport route!).

Richard, you had a post somewhere on MP filled with all kinds of good El Chorro info and I can't seem to find it. Can you find it and paste it for us?

Brad Youngwrote:

I had a fantastic three days climbing with my 29 year old daughter at Pinnacles (at her invitation!!).

I should note however, that climbing The Unmentionable with my adult daughter and her adult female friend was… interesting. Neither held back much on the innuendo ;)

Wow!  Gone for 5 days and 140+ missed posts!

So much fun catching up!

Brad, dare I say ("Dare, Dare"--old movie quote that most young punks won't get these days!), that is a f*cking awesome photo you have right there!  ;)

Rgold, I was reading Heinlein in the '90's and I'm only in my 5th decade so there is still some hope for a few of us under 7 decades!  I recognized "grok" right off!  Still absolutely love "Starship Troopers" (the novel, not the movie which was nothing like the book).

A number of us here at West Point watched the White House meeting with Zelensky on TV live at work and the room was just speechless.  Could not even believe what we were seeing.

I'll edit this post later to post a picture of my son who just graduated Ranger school on Friday after 9 weeks of pure HELL on earth where he lost over 20 pounds (and he went in with around 5% body fat to begin with) and his thoughts, as well as mine, were that we serve and defend the Constitution of the United States.  That's what we swore our oath to first and foremost and he said that even though he was running with some very high speed, very lethal folks, everyone around him said the same thing.  Most called Trump a Draft Dodger at the graduation.  I was very surprised to hear that from these truly elite warrior types in the Army.

There is hope for those coming up behind us, even in the military.

Well, looking forward to getting outside soon to climb!

Here at West Point the amazing Sue Kligerman runs the climbing program and she allows staff to climb at the indoor wall on post on Tuesdays at lunch.  So much fun but the grades are soooo hard!  No "easy" indoor grades here to boost the egos! She says that she grades them hard so that her Cadets don't go to the Gunks for the first time and think that they can run up a .10 and then get seriously hurt.

Right!  Climb On all!  

Buck Rogerswrote:

Wow!  Gone for 5 days and 140+ missed posts!

So much fun catching up!

Brad, dare I say ("Dare, Dare"--old movie quote that most young punks won't get these days!), that is a f*cking awesome photo you have right there!  ;)

Rgold, I was reading Heinlein in the '90's and I'm only in my 5th decade so there is still some hope for a few of us under 7 decades!  I recognized "grok" right off!  Still absolutely love "Starship Troopers" (the novel, not the movie which was nothing like the book).

A number of us here at West Point watched the White House meeting with Zelensky on TV live at work and the room was just speechless.  Could not even believe what we were seeing.

I'll edit this post later to post a picture of my son who just graduated Ranger school on Friday after 9 weeks of pure HELL on earth where he lost over 20 pounds (and he went in with around 5% body fat to begin with) and his thoughts, as well as mine, were that we serve and defend the Constitution of the United States.  That's what we swore our oath to first and foremost and he said that even though he was running with some very high speed, very lethal folks, everyone around him said the same thing.  Most called Trump a Draft Dodger at the graduation.  I was very surprised to hear that from these truly elite warrior types in the Army.

There is hope for those coming up behind us, even in the military.

Well, looking forward to getting outside soon to climb!

Here at West Point the amazing Sue Kligerman runs the climbing program and she allows staff to climb at the indoor wall on post on Tuesdays at lunch.  So much fun but the grades are soooo hard!  No "easy" indoor grades here to boost the egos! She says that she grades them hard so that her Cadets don't go to the Gunks for the first time and think that they can run up a .10 and then get seriously hurt.

Right!  Climb On all!  

So glad you posted this, Buck.  We need some encouragement.  Congratulations to your son.  It’s incredible the destruction in a few short weeks. And not to be selfish but I can’t even look at my 401k right now. For all I know it could be gone. 

Lori, the S and P is not even down 10% from all time highs.  I wouldn’t panic - yet. 

Buck, we and the Army could have used Sue here, out west, a few weeks ago. At Pinnacles National Park.

Three young climbers, all in the Army, all attending the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, went out for their second climbing experience (they’d been out once with a more experienced climber).

The leader picked out a 5.6 R. Somehow he got into trouble and took a bad, bad lead fall (no one is quite sure what happened - he went all the way to the ground and all the responders were non-climbers).

Broken tib and fib, multiple really bad head lacerations, broken bones in a shoulder. None of them had a helmet. It may even have been a belayer error. Thirty something feet to a bounce and then 50 more feet of tumbling.

Maybe share this with Sue? And share your comments too? She might have kept things on the safer side? Although you may not have known it, your comments aren’t just theoretical!

Buck Rogerswrote:

I'll edit this post later to post a picture of my son who just graduated Ranger school on Friday after 9 weeks of pure HELL on earth where he lost over 20 pounds (and he went in with around 5% body fat to begin with) and his thoughts, as well as mine, were that we serve and defend the Constitution of the United States.  That's what we swore our oath to first and foremost and he said that even though he was running with some very high speed, very lethal folks, everyone around him said the same thing.  Most called Trump a Draft Dodger at the graduation.  I was very surprised to hear that from these truly elite warrior types in the Army.

Congrats to your son! I know a few people who went through Ranger school who also lost a bunch of weight. Reminds me of the story about Don Whillans showing up to an Everest expedition with a great big beer belly and a young climber tells him he's fat. Whillans responded that by the end of the expedition I'll be skinny and you'll be non existent. I guess for some things it's good to have some "reserves".

Emil Briggswrote:

Congrats to your son! I know a few people who went through Ranger school who also lost a bunch of weight. Reminds me of the story about Don Whillans showing up to an Everest expedition with a great big beer belly and a young climber tells him he's fat. Whillans responded that by the end of the expedition I'll be skinny and you'll be non existent. I guess for some things it's good to have some "reserves".

There is an iconic photo from that expedition ( or a similar one involving him--Annapurna South Face, maybe) of a far from svelte Whillans holding an umbrella walking past and exchanging 'looks' with a very emasciated-appearing Hindu pilgrim.

The irony is, of course, is that Whillans was correct---he was almost inevitably in the summit team ( though also classically Whillans, that was after he let the others do almost all of the debilitating route 'prep work').

Brad Youngwrote:

Buck, we and the Army could have used Sue here, out west, a few weeks ago. At Pinnacles National Park.

Three young climbers, all in the Army, all attending the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, went out for their second climbing experience (they’d been out once with a more experienced climber).

The leader picked out a 5.6 R. Somehow he got into trouble and took a bad, bad lead fall (no one is quite sure what happened - he went all the way to the ground and all the responders were non-climbers).

Broken tib and fib, multiple really bad head lacerations, broken bones in a shoulder. None of them had a helmet. It may even have been a belayer error. Thirty something feet to a bounce and then 50 more feet of tumbling.

Maybe share this with Sue? And share your comments too? She might have kept things on the safer side? Although you may not have known it, your comments aren’t just theoretical!

Oh no!  That's horrible!  

I wonder if they were West Point grads or not and if they had worked with Sue.  I would bet not as she is so good at teaching safety and limits and how to climb.

Do you have a link for any story/update?

Buck, I remember hearing that there was an outcrop--I think near some RR tracks either on Academy property or close by, that once was fairly popular, but then became either 'off-limits' to civilians or closed entirely. Are you familiar of that area? If so, what is the current status?

There is a significant amount of rock in the Hudson Highlands area, including several historic crags, very popular with the early (1920s/30s) NY climbers--where Fritz Weissner put up several hard for the era routes shortly after he emigrated to the US, that are unfortunately currently ( and have been for a long time) off-limits to climbing due to Palisades Interstate Park Commission regulations ( the only exception being Powerlinz). 

Alan. that famous shot of Whillians with the umbrella looking obese is from the tail end of his career and he did not perform well on that expedition.  It certainly worked for him in his youth but its a simple fact that hard drinkers won't have as long of a  career climbing as those who reign it in after they hit their 30s...  A very excellent book  is Bonington's Boys.  Those guys really tore it up in their day. www.amazon.com/Boys-Everest-Bonington-Climbings-Generation/dp/0786720247

Buck Rogerswrote:

Oh no!  That's horrible!  

I wonder if they were West Point grads or not and if they had worked with Sue.  I would bet not as she is so good at teaching safety and limits and how to climb.

Do you have a link for any story/update?

No link. There was a local news station story, but you know how accurate those are (they do try - but they don't have the background in climbing to get it quite right). I do know that the injured climber was released from the hospital after just four days, so that's good.

I talked extensively with the first responder who is a park volunteer and is there just about every Saturday. I climb at Pinns enough that he and I have become quite good friends over many years. He and his co-volunteer were less than 100 yards from the fall when it occurred, so their response was very fast (there's bad luck and there's good luck...).

Alan Rubinwrote:

Buck, I remember hearing that there was an outcrop--I think near some RR tracks either on Academy property or close by, that once was fairly popular, but then became either 'off-limits' to civilians or closed entirely. Are you familiar of that area? If so, what is the current status?

There is a significant amount of rock in the Hudson Highlands area, including several historic crags, very popular with the early (1920s/30s) NY climbers--where Fritz Weissner put up several hard for the era routes shortly after he emigrated to the US, that are unfortunately currently ( and have been for a long time) off-limits to climbing due to Palisades Interstate Park Commission regulations ( the only exception being Powerlinz). 

The West Point outcrop next to the tracks was named the "Poison Ivy Wall" (for obvious reasons).  The climbing was actually fairly decent.  I  finagled my way into a comp there 20+ years ago.  Civilians were paired with cadets in 2 person teams.  My cadet and myself managed to come in 2nd (I would guess there were ~20 teams).  I still have the trophy I won - sort of a sculpture made out of railroad spikes.  The cadet instructor/faculty was some well known guy - wish I could remember his name - "Coach".   About every 30 minutes we had to scramble off the tracks as a train came by.

Alan Rubinwrote:

Buck, I remember hearing that there was an outcrop--I think near some RR tracks either on Academy property or close by, that once was fairly popular, but then became either 'off-limits' to civilians or closed entirely. Are you familiar of that area? If so, what is the current status?

https://www.mountainproject.com/area/118667250/poison-ivy-wall

I was an AOIC (assistant office in charge) for the Cadet Climbing Team from 2007-2012 and helped Dawes S. and Sue K. run practices and trips to the Gunks and Catskills. During my time at West Point, civilians were officially prohibited from climbing at Poison Ivy (aka PI) Wall but the ban was never enforced. The only official exception was for the annual climbing comp that Eric mentioned above. Civilian access to the crag was via the railroad access road, starting at either the Highland Falls marina or McDonalds. Starting a few years after I left WP, civilians were no longer allowed to climb at PI Wall - not sure why there was a change in enforcement. PI Wall was established by Ned Crossley, the first WP climbing coach. While the venue right on the Hudson River is unique, the climbing is pretty meh IMO - bolted climbing on polished rock formed from a railroad cut. However, it is not a bad place to get in a few quick laps after school or work.

Buck tell your son congratulations and thank you for what he does everyday. I am a retired CSM and have the same concerns. We need to defend the constitution. You and I have a mutual friend. MT in Burlington. Thanks for what you’re doing also. 

Alan Rubinwrote:

Buck, I remember hearing that there was an outcrop--I think near some RR tracks either on Academy property or close by, that once was fairly popular, but then became either 'off-limits' to civilians or closed entirely. Are you familiar of that area? If so, what is the current status?

Good morning!

Alan:  I've heard that it is closed to non-DoD ID card holders and that the MP's occasionally come by if they hear someone is climbing and will "gently" ask you to leave if you do not have an ID.

But, that is all second and third hand info so I am not sure!

I hope to check it out next week for the first time and perhaps I'll end up with some first hand info!

Brad:  Thanks for the info that you do have!  Appreciate it. As I get older, I "feel" it more when I hear about these accidents, esp if I have some remote connection.  I must be getting soft in my old age!

JWestagte: Cool!  I do not know you but I know whom you are speaking about!  I only know one "MT" in Burlington.  His wife has been my wife's best friend for the last 45+ years!  Small world!

Nick, while my recollection is that the Whillans/ Hindu pilgrim photo was from one of the expeditions on which he did summit ( I'm on the road, so unable to confirm this), I definitely agree with your basic point. He died at 54 ( would have barely 'qualified' for this thread!!!) and was physically a mess for years before that from far too much indulgence.

While, in his heyday, he was an exceptionally talented and accomplished climber and had a sharp wit, in many other ( and much more important) ways he was far from an admirable person. Villian ( his biography by Jim Perrin) is overall a very depressing read---it is further confirmation that it is wrong to put someone on a pedestal ( as many did with Whillans) because of their athletic abilities.

Eric, Buck,and Robert, thanks for the information on the PI Wall. IIRC in the 70s, before climbing was a recognized activity at West Point, Gary Garrett was the first Cadet to become, the the extent his duty allowed, a Gunks regular.

I'm just going to throw this out here as I feel that everyone here on this thread is not a true "Rando" like I would find in the Partner Forum.  I've had some great luck in the Partner Forum but I also had one that was NOT a great match so I'll try here first!

Seems a number of you are in the Northeast so maybe I'll get lucky!

I'm looking to climb the Northeast Ridge of Pinnacle Gully and the Diagonal in the Daks sooner than later once the weather clears enough for it.

Now I know that this is the "old person" thread and that each of these climbs have brutal hikes in and out (multi-hour approaches) but I would love to link up with one (or more) of you if you are up for either of those!

I have been climbing since '86, have a current WFRer, did my SPI 5 years ago (expired now), am an M.D. surgeon, like to think that I have a "cool head" when the "fun" starts, and also like to think that I am a pretty positive person.  I have way too many ropes and a pretty much full Yosemite rack!

Also, I am perhaps overly safe.  I've come to realize that there is no mountain (actually mountain, not metaphorical) worth dying on for me.  I've back off climbs in the last few years secondary to weather.  

Only leading up to .7 trad but I am prepared to aid the final two pitches of The Diagonal (and have the ability and equipment) if it comes to it and can follow harder if someone wants to lead the .8 variation on the NE Ridge or the final two pitches of the Diagonal.

Anyways, let me know if this is something that you are willing and wanting and able to do and we'll work out a time to get on one or both of them!

seven-one-nine-508-0706 (not sure why everyone does that with the numbers but perhaps it keeps the bots from adding you to spam lists???

Finally a warm and dry day here in the NE, climbing, trundling, wildlife and even a cold beverage in the parking lot!

Buck, those objectives sound fun, too far of a drive from here unfortunately 

Buck Rogerswrote:

I'm just going to throw this out here as I feel that everyone here on this thread is not a true "Rando" like I would find in the Partner Forum.  I've had some great luck in the Partner Forum but I also had one that was NOT a great match so I'll try here first!

Seems a number of you are in the Northeast so maybe I'll get lucky!

I'm looking to climb the Northeast Ridge of Pinnacle Gully and the Diagonal in the Daks sooner than later once the weather clears enough for it.

Now I know that this is the "old person" thread and that each of these climbs have brutal hikes in and out (multi-hour approaches) but I would love to link up with one (or more) of you if you are up for either of those!

I have been climbing since '86, have a current WFRer, did my SPI 5 years ago (expired now), am an M.D. surgeon, like to think that I have a "cool head" when the "fun" starts, and also like to think that I am a pretty positive person.  I have way too many ropes and a pretty much full Yosemite rack!

Also, I am perhaps overly safe.  I've come to realize that there is no mountain (actually mountain, not metaphorical) worth dying on for me.  I've back off climbs in the last few years secondary to weather.  

Only leading up to .7 trad but I am prepared to aid the final two pitches of The Diagonal (and have the ability and equipment) if it comes to it and can follow harder if someone wants to lead the .8 variation on the NE Ridge or the final two pitches of the Diagonal.

Anyways, let me know if this is something that you are willing and wanting and able to do and we'll work out a time to get on one or both of them!

seven-one-nine-508-0706 (not sure why everyone does that with the numbers but perhaps it keeps the bots from adding you to spam lists???

By the Northeast Ridge of Pinnacle Gully you mean on Mt. Washington? In that case you can make the hike much easier by driving up close to the top of Mt. Washington and then hiking down to the base of the climb. That's what I did a few years back when I did it with my daughter. We did the 8 variation and while I was leading easy 11s on gear at the time I found the crux pitch a bit exciting since I did it with a pack on. It's a great route with spectacular views. I would love to do it again but I live in the southeast and won't be able to get back up there for a while.

M Mwrote:

Finally a warm and dry day here in the NE, climbing, trundling, wildlife and even a cold beverage in the parking lot!

Buck, those objectives sound fun, too far of a drive from here unfortunately 

Woah!!!  Gorgeous!  

Where in Maine, if you do not mind me asking?

I have a few objectives there as well to knock out before I get "too broken" to really do some longer approaches!