Textbook Bad GriGri belay puts comp climber in hospital

Mike Gibson wrote:

There is more than one person to blame here.  What about all the other people standing around including the person videoing the event and the dude talking with the belayer?  Did everyone else there think the belayer's technique was ok before the accident?  I doubt that is the first time for the belayer to belay someone.  How come nobody questioned or corrected the belayer before the accident?

Video seems stationary so I'd wager it's 1 of those camera phones on a tripod. Blaming other people in the vicinity is kinda ludicrous in my opinion. & just playing devil's advocate here but it's *very difficult to see what's going on w the belayer & his hands & the gri² because he has that gigantic glove covering it.

Sounds like the belayer blamed equipment failure. If he or the staff at the gym or team officials could've examined the defective gri² & informed Sara about their findings, that would've gone a long way in his defense.

On the video, seems like belayer realized the rope was zipping through his gri² & either panicked or didn't know how to react until climber hit the deck. 9.8m/s² + 13m wall = <2 seconds. That's not a lot of time if you're belaying & distracted. 

Main takeaway is to concentrate on your climber when they're climbing, don't be shy about yelling to your belayer to watch you when you're climbing, & don't distract people when they're actively belaying someone.

I really hope this explodes on social media & someone takes responsibility for what happened to Sara. Looks like she's a hard worker, finally walking again after struggling to get healthcare in Saudi Arabia. 

To add:

Even with a cam failure, if hand was on the brake side of the rope as per best practice, belayer should have been able to arrest her fall.

As far as see something say something, I've done that & been told to stfu. I'm non-confrontational so I tend to just walk away when I see shady shit going down. I believe there have been numerous MP threads talking about this exact subject

Jeremy L wrote:

On the video, seems like belayer realized the rope was zipping through his gri² & either panicked or didn't know how to react until climber hit the deck. 9.8m/s² + 13m wall = <2 seconds. That's not a lot of time if you're belaying & distracted. 

Main takeaway is to concentrate on your climber when they're climbing, don't be shy about yelling to your belayer to watch you when you're climbing, & don't distract people when they're actively belaying someone.

I sort of disagree. The main takeaway is that as a belayer you should be creating muscle memory with good technique. Even a fully distracted belayer using good technique/muscle memory is still going to arrest a fall even if they're not watching their climber.

If I'm climbing, and I had to choose between the following:

A.  A belayer with proper technique / muscle memory with a blind fold on talking to 3 people around them fully distracted, not watching me at all. Short roping me constantly when I go to clip or move upwards.

B. The belayer in this video paying full attention to me with zero distractions. 

I'd choose A every time.

"Please note that she already climbed to the top and clipped into the anchor draws above her -- this was not even an unexpected lead fall"

At the risk of getting roasted on MP. I don't gym climb or do competitions, but is it normal; practice to just get to the anchor and let go assuming a belay from an "attentive" belayer will be ready?Perhaps I missed something but it looks like she gets to the top clips and jut lets go. Did she say "take" or "on belay" but the belayer did not hear her due to distractions? I can't even feel comfortable giving or starting a belay myself, unless I have had communication with my partner and know for sure what is going on. This does not excuse the horrible belaying, and I am not placing blame on her since I don't have all the info. I'm just curious if I missed something, or did she just really get to the top and expect a belay as is normal, but non was given? If so, is this normal in the gym or comp world? 

claudio ricardez wrote:

At the risk of getting roasted on MP. I don't gym climb or do competitions, but is it normal; practice to just get to the anchor and let go assuming a belay from an "attentive" belayer will be ready?

No. The only climbers I have ever seen do that are speed climbers on auto belays…and if I was ever belaying someone who did that intentionally we’d be having a talk and they probably wouldn’t be belaying me anytime soon.

It’s certainly possible she unintentionally fell after or while clipping at the anchor.

Edit to clarify: my main point was about taking an intentional fall w/out first confirming the plan with your belayer. Just the same, at least in my orbit, ‘victory whips’ just for the sake of them are not appreciated. I tend to agree with that outlook. Not a fan.

claudio ricardez wrote:

"Please note that she already climbed to the top and clipped into the anchor draws above her -- this was not even an unexpected lead fall"

At the risk of getting roasted on MP. I don't gym climb or do competitions, but is it normal; practice to just get to the anchor and let go assuming a belay from an "attentive" belayer will be ready?Perhaps I missed something but it looks like she gets to the top clips and jut lets go. Did she say "take" or "on belay" but the belayer did not hear her due to distractions? I can't even feel comfortable giving or starting a belay myself, unless I have had communication with my partner and know for sure what is going on. This does not excuse the horrible belaying, and I am not placing blame on her since I don't have all the info. I'm just curious if I missed something, or did she just really get to the top and expect a belay as is normal, but non was given? If so, is this normal in the gym or comp world? 

Comp climbers are used to being belayed very quickly. Even the "normal" lower on a typical comp belay looks a lot like a fall. So she must have assumed her belayer was, A) looking up and B) belaying safely. Both of which I think are reasonable things to think, even though I don't doubt she really wishes she'd looked down to see the shit-show below prior to depending on him. 

The magnitude of extreme idiot this guy is, is hard to overstate. He should be banned from the gym for life, never be trusted to belay anybody ever again, and if she sued him over such gross negligence and incompetence simply to send a message - I'd fully understand. Not that she'd win, but still. This is every moronic possibility one could come up with when belaying, absent just unclipping from a belay device and walking away. 

This is appallingly bad, absolutely atrocious and can't even be called belaying. This dude sucks so, so bad. 

It is in fact very common for climbers to fall unannounced.  

Tone Loc wrote:

No. The only climbers I have ever seen do that are speed climbers on auto belays…and if I was ever belaying someone who did that intentionally we’d be having a talk and they probably wouldn’t be belaying me anytime soon.

It’s certainly possible she unintentionally fell after or while clipping at the anchor.

I "whip" off the gym anchors on purpose all the time. But this is something I've communicated with my belayer(s) ahead of time. I thought this was more common.

claudio ricardez wrote:

"Please note that she already climbed to the top and clipped into the anchor draws above her -- this was not even an unexpected lead fall"

At the risk of getting roasted on MP. I don't gym climb or do competitions, but is it normal; practice to just get to the anchor and let go assuming a belay from an "attentive" belayer will be ready?Perhaps I missed something but it looks like she gets to the top clips and jut lets go. Did she say "take" or "on belay" but the belayer did not hear her due to distractions? I can't even feel comfortable giving or starting a belay myself, unless I have had communication with my partner and know for sure what is going on. This does not excuse the horrible belaying, and I am not placing blame on her since I don't have all the info. I'm just curious if I missed something, or did she just really get to the top and expect a belay as is normal, but non was given? If so, is this normal in the gym or comp world? 

I have partners who will clip the last bolt, go to the anchor and tap it, and take a "victory whip" aka an intentional fall at the top unannounced. That's not unheard of. A belayer should be paying attention at all times until the climber is back on the ground, and as a belayer you should be ready to catch a fall at any point while your climber is ascending a route. Unexpected and unannounced falls are very common when working hard routes and really going for it. A belayer who isn't ready at all times, is a sh-t belayer. 

This applies to indoor and outdoor climbing. 

i think PETZL should ask her to use this clip as a revised *how to belay* serie.... this incompetent asshole was somehow just as bad as the sunglasses-guy they used.

also, someone can not become so atrocious just suddenly, its a habit... makes you wonder how many other kids he almost got killed before this one.

Watching the video I noticed that before the fall he also short ropes her at one point. I have a feeling that his solution to avoid short roping again was to more fully defeat the cam instead of taking it as a wake up call to pay attention.

claudio ricardez wrote:

"Please note that she already climbed to the top and clipped into the anchor draws above her -- this was not even an unexpected lead fall"

At the risk of getting roasted on MP. I don't gym climb or do competitions, but is it normal; practice to just get to the anchor and let go assuming a belay from an "attentive" belayer will be ready?Perhaps I missed something but it looks like she gets to the top clips and jut lets go. Did she say "take" or "on belay" but the belayer did not hear her due to distractions? I can't even feel comfortable giving or starting a belay myself, unless I have had communication with my partner and know for sure what is going on. This does not excuse the horrible belaying, and I am not placing blame on her since I don't have all the info. I'm just curious if I missed something, or did she just really get to the top and expect a belay as is normal, but non was given? If so, is this normal in the gym or comp world? 

You were already aware that what you had to say could be controversial so I'm going to be blunt.

Your question is stupid and pointless. It, intentionally or not, obfuscates the core issue at hand: a belayer MUST be ready to catch a fall at any time, no matter how unexpected. What does it matter whether the climber simply lets go vs actually falls? Does one scenario justify shitty belaying and the other not? You already know the answer, so why even ask the question?

Avram Neal wrote:

I sort of disagree. The main takeaway is that as a belayer you should be creating muscle memory with good technique. Even a fully distracted belayer using good technique/muscle memory is still going to arrest a fall even if they're not watching their climber.

If I'm climbing, and I had to choose between the following:

A.  A belayer with proper technique / muscle memory with a blind fold on talking to 3 people around them fully distracted, not watching me at all. Short roping me constantly when I go to clip or move upwards.

B. The belayer in this video paying full attention to me with zero distractions. 

I'd choose A every time.

I'd take door #3 & have a belayer that won't short rope me because they're paying attention. I get what you mean though, I've belayed plenty of times without seeing or hearing my partner. Either the route climbs over a lip or to the side, wind is blowing, road noise, whatever. I still would have a belayer that knows 1 tug = take, 2 tugs = climbing. Only way you'd know that is if the belayer is attentive.

Obviously wouldn't pick B in your list of "belayers" because dude certainly was not belaying. 

Paul L wrote:

As the dad to a competitive climber that will be leading in comps in a few years, this video really shocked me.  I've seen some falls at comps that I think are unnecessarily large, but never a belay that I thought was downright incompetent.  My expectation is that the belayers are well vetted, and I would definitely hold that expectation at an international level.  I'll be asking a lot of question regarding this when the time comes now.  

Good thing you brought it up! Coincidentally, I saw a short video clip yesterday (not on MP) from a confused parent asking whether the belayer had threaded the rope backward in the Grigri when a kid was being belayed in a local lead competition. And it sure was based on the close-up! Come to think of it, these climbing competitions and training camps are indeed where oftentimes people are belayed by random folks. With so many kids needing a belay, volunteer parents are often put in the position. Many of them are not seasoned lead belayers whether they pay attention or not.

I'll add another takeaway -- Be a caring onlooker and do not be afraid to speak up when you spot unsafe climbing/belaying practices. I have done that many times before -- most common in the gym is a top rope belayer letting a huge loop of slack build up draping over the beginner climber moving up easy route fast but oblivious to the unsafe belay. I NEVER encountered negative unappreciative responses, but to be honest, I wouldn't have cared. 

claudio ricardez wrote:

"Please note that she already climbed to the top and clipped into the anchor draws above her -- this was not even an unexpected lead fall"

At the risk of getting roasted on MP. I don't gym climb or do competitions, but is it normal; practice to just get to the anchor and let go assuming a belay from an "attentive" belayer will be ready?Perhaps I missed something but it looks like she gets to the top clips and jut lets go. 

Yes. It was a warmup route for her and in her own words, she "climbed all the way up [and] then let go." Is it "normal"? There are this crusher couple in my gym these days and I routinely watch her do exactly that. There is nothing wrong about that when you know your belayer can be trusted. Well, many years ago (before Covid shutdown), I had a very supportive partner who loved seeing me push my limit in the gym and urged me to take more falls. She, being lighter than me, gave excellent soft catches. There was a period of time that I regularly climbed my route and just let go, sometimes without clipping the anchor draws if terrain was safe for a big fall and knew that she'd catch me whether she had the line of sight or not (in the case of a deep lead cave). I don't do that anymore no matter how much I trust my current partner(s). These days, after I clipped the anchor draws, while waiting for the rope to come tight to bear my full weight, I'd even subconsciously check my knot one more time as if it could have miraculously vanished/untied. (Maybe I should find that thread "Gettin' Old- What does it mean? " . Never mind, it is in Bouldering forum.)  

She wrote in a comment that the two men chatting had 25 years of climbing experience combined. In my mind, it's not that he/they do not know the importance of belaying. Even if the belayer was slapped with a Grigri that he had never used before while being an ATC (or whatever device) user, there is no excuse for him not to learn (even if on the spot) how to use the Grigri for a proper catch and lower. I think the bottomline was neither man cared or paid attention. 

I know this isn't called "Gym Comp Project" but I'm going to point out another side-effect of this kind of shitty belaying. Competitors (and we're talking about mostly young people... kids) walk into comps and time after time have to rely on a belay from someone they've never met or seen. I know parents who spend hundreds of hours volunteering as comp belayers and who take it extremely seriously. I'd let them belay me any time. But every single time there's an incident like this it corrodes the confidence and trust competitors have to give to their belayers. Which becomes a distraction.

Also, this isn't the first comp fall I've seen. Back when my daughter was a comp climber I saw a kid deck lead climbing when his belayer had too much slack and was too far from the wall. Kid fell at the 2nd draw and just went right to the mats. Luckily he wasn't that high and it was just a bad bouldering fall with harness and rope on. The other time was a screw up by a speed climbing belay team. That kid hit the ground and I think there were some broken bones...

So this was basically the “Euro” or “old” method but without the brake strand in hand, right?

Paul L wrote:

It is in fact very common for climbers to fall unannounced.  

I always mail out fall announcements at least a week in advance.

Khoi wrote:

What does it matter whether the climber simply lets go vs actually falls? Does one scenario justify shitty belaying and the other not? You already know the answer, so why even ask the question?

This.  

I'm appalled that there are people saying that the climber bears responsibility for this accident in any amount because she didn't communicate with her belayer that she was falling from the top, especially other climbers.  Yelling, "falling," or even, "take," in the gym are in reality only courtesy.  You could even say the same for outside if just clipping anchors to lower off (yes, impact on community gear should be considered, but that's nothing to do with climber/belayer safety).  There's no reason for the climber to be at the anchor any longer than they need to clip the draws, so if they just let go in order to be lowered down, what's it matter?  Or, if they want to take an unannounced fall just to get the jitters out? It's all the same as just having a foot pop... the belayer should always be expecting a fall.  There is just not a valid reason to assign any blame to the climber once the climber is on the wall.  

How did this person even get approved for belaying athletes? I mean I’m sure that’s not the first time he belayed badly. A “professional belayer” should belay… well, in a professional manner. Not paying attention and belaying with an outdated method are bad enough in this context but blocking the Grigri during the fall and not having the presence of mind to let go is a whole different degree of incompetence.