New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #34

Lori: “I tried to find a pair of original EB’s last year just so I could see for myself. I don’t think I ever found a pair, but also it’s hard enough for me to climb with the best sticky rubber on the finest shoe.  But if I could ever get a hold of a pair, I would buy them and try them out.”

I tried to do the same thing myself. After hiking boots, then “Black Beauties” (a very stiff edging boot/aid boot), EBs were my first real shoes and they made a huge difference. I posted on MP a long time ago trying to find a pair I could buy. Tried eBay, etc. as well. Part of the problem is I now wear a size 13 or so (size 46 new version TC Pros have slowly broken in to nearly all day shoes). And my feet are probably longer now than when I wore EBs and Fires as a teen/young adult, due to decades of Earth’s gravity.

So, if anyone has some old EBs, or even Fires, in a size 46-48 range, I’d buy ‘em! It would be fun to climb something with them with a matching rack of stoppers and hexes. 

Lori, with smaller sizes you might have better luck. 

Colden Darkwrote:

So whatever happened to Scott Franklin? When I started climbing in the mid-80s he was a rockstar on the cover of R&I…

Scott is still climbing in Rifle on the weekends with his wife and former Hollywood stuntwoman, Gia. He remains really strong, and runs his solar lighting company on his days off (from climbing). 

rgoldwrote:
So the answer is that in many ways I've been a spectator as the changes have swept over the climbing world. But I will say that the gear has made things far safer and a bit easier, so the technical changes have been most welcome, because they've helped to keep me in the game. If I had to lead now, as I was in, say, 1970, with nothing but a small rack of nuts, I'd probably have given up or at least retired from leading anything.

One of the fun things to do is an "all passive" climb (nuts, chocks and slings).  This is something some of us do at the City of Rocks.  There are a couple of routes on the Breadloaves and Window Rock that are our usual targets. These are easy climbs.  No desire to try anything above 5.6.  Lots of respect for those that climbed hard BITD.

apogeewrote:

There is so much great history and writing in this thread. I’m very thankful for all that is contributed here.

This right here!

I feel like I'm hiding in the shadows of a great hall while all of the Legends/Gods/Goddesses sit around and have a drink and talk and laugh about the "good ol'days".

I love the history of mountaineering and rock climbing and this thread is such a treasure!

And I also say "Thanks" to all of you for contributing!

??? I thought Honnold led it many times before soloing.

Yes, many times. He also top roped it many times and top roped the various cruxes even more. He spent years doing it. 

What a load to bear, long term! He kept that daunting dream alive, chipped away at it, and then...

A case study in Preparation of a Master.

This is for Daniel

I keep a lot of old stuff, don't really want to throw it away, I guess.

Have some old shoes (not your size). A pair of RR Varapes (if I have the name correctly). Tried them on some easy (5.7) slab that we used to scramble up at Mt Rubidoux. Couldn't get up it.

Same with old pair of EBs. They edged OK but I could not smear anything. Tried them on Tahquitz, the last friction pitch of Fingertip . The old Fires were better but nothing to compare to 5.10 rubber.

Obviously, the difference between the old and the new rubber is monumental. Those who could climb hard 10s in EBs were the best climbers BITD.

Great posts above. All true opinions/thoughts  based on many years of experience. 

One other large change of note I see is beta. There is so much information available today on any climb that has already been done.
This is true of rock climbs but in a mountaineering sense that change is even more profound. So many of my early expeditions were inspired by a photograph I saw somewhere. After the initial inspiration I had to figure out which country or range the peak was in, what the peak was called, where exactly the peak was, and how to approach the climb and how to descend. Often that involved finding and ordering maps that might take weeks or months to obtain. After that it might take a week or more in some dirty third world town or Alaskan bar to figure out the logistics to just get to the peak.
Now so much of that information is just a couple of clicks away on your phone. 

Daniel Joderwrote:

Lori: “I tried to find a pair of original EB’s last year just so I could see for myself. I don’t think I ever found a pair, but also it’s hard enough for me to climb with the best sticky rubber on the finest shoe.  But if I could ever get a hold of a pair, I would buy them and try them out.”

I tried to do the same thing myself. After hiking boots, then “Black Beauties” (a very stiff edging boot/aid boot), EBs were my first real shoes and they made a huge difference. I posted on MP a long time ago trying to find a pair I could buy. Tried eBay, etc. as well. Part of the problem is I now wear a size 13 or so (size 46 new version TC Pros have slowly broken in to nearly all day shoes). And my feet are probably longer now than when I wore EBs and Fires as a teen/young adult, due to decades of Earth’s gravity.

So, if anyone has some old EBs, or even Fires, in a size 46-48 range, I’d buy ‘em! It would be fun to climb something with them with a matching rack of stoppers and hexes. 

Lori, with smaller sizes you might have better luck. 

Daniel, I remember those Black Beauties. I think I had a pair. As I recall, Eddie Fabiano designed them specifically for the edging climbs at Quincy Quarries, where I did my first climbs (1970).

tom donnellywrote:

??? I thought Honnold led it many times before soloing.

I believe that rgold was being sarcastic when he posted his comment, though maybe 'sarcastic' isn't exactly the right term to use---he is saying that BITD people couldn't even conceive that anyone would be able to do the type of 'preparation' that Honnold did before his solo--or most folks have done prior to their El Cap FFAs.

Buck Rogerswrote:

I feel like I'm hiding in the shadows of a great hall while all of the Legends/Gods/Goddesses sit around and have a drink and talk and laugh about the "good ol'days".

Wait a second, aren't you legendary...

I seem to remember...

Just to clear up any confusion, my pics upthread of my friend Dale are on To Bolt or Not to Be. 

That was America's first 5.14 lead by Frenchman Jean-Baptiste Tribout, and not on Scarface the first 5.14 put up by an American (Scott Franklin).

Here's a link to a pretty good interview with Alan Watts for some context 

https://www.planetmountain.com/en/news/alan-watts-climbing-interview/4212

Edit, It would appear there is some gray here...

So I should say "Scarface long thought of as the first 5.14 put up by an American."

One has to wonder... How many of these unrepeated things there are out there that could have actually been "the first 5.14 put up by an American"?

fossilwrote:

 .... Scarface the first 5.14 put up by an American (Scott Franklin).

The issue with “old boots” any old boots older than 10 years old is this: any sticky they have or had is long gone.
While “downsizing” I came across a big tub of old boots … even had a few pairs of EB’s, Fires and Mega’s. A ton of Mythos- my dream boots for the last 25 years. None of them worked- the rubber had “dried out” was hard and brittle.
So if you find any old boot you must resole them- but I don’t think they make “original EB rubber” .

On a side note I had of pair of Sportiva plastic double boots from 2000… dug them up for a stab at some Ice climbing about 5 years ago.
Hooked up the crampons, made a few kicks and the boots fell apart completely.

Cherokee, Penelope and Norm …. Good to “see” you here.

Later all - today is Stoney day. I must go do my special brand of bouldering. 

Guy Keeseewrote:

On a side note I had of pair of Sportiva plastic double boots from 2000… dug them up for a stab at some Ice climbing about 5 years ago.
Hooked up the crampons, made a few kicks and the boots fell apart completely.

That’s funny…I‘ve been doing some ‘Swedish Death Cleaning’ lately, and came across a brand new pair of LaSportiva Makalus. I Pro Dealed ‘em in the late 90’s as a back up for the pair I was using at the time, then never used ‘em. Sold them on Craigslist last week for $50, with the tags still on ‘em.

Used to love those boots for general mountaineering, but damn, they sure were heavy back then.

Daniel Joderwrote:

. . .  EBs were my first real shoes and they made a huge difference. 

Daniel, I had a pair of EBs also, but didn't care for them. From 1959 through about 1962 I wore a pair of PAs. They were excellent climbing shoes, but without sticky rubber. Here I am wearing them, wandering around on Blacktail Butte in Jackson Hole in 1959.

John…. Looking pretty buff!!!

John Gillwrote:

Daniel, I had a pair of EBs also, but didn't care for them. From 1959 through about 1962 I wore a pair of PAs. They were excellent climbing shoes, but without sticky rubber. Here I am wearing them, wandering around on Blacktail Butte in Jackson Hole in 1959.

Hilarious that this is the cover of a math magazine! That’s awesome! But then there has been a lot of discussion of engineers, mathematicians, and others of that ilk who also climbed. Thanks for that, John Gill. (And “wandering around” seems to be pretty high up.)

And good point made above (Wendy) that even if I found an old pair that fit, the rubber wouldn’t be the same due to age. 

I remember Black tail Bute as being exceptionally slippery...  My old EB's are all curled up and the rubber is stiff and cracking.  cant even remember if I kept them and threw them out when I moved up here. 

Lori, always keep in mind, that there is rock climbing, at various places including JT and local cliffs everywhere.....and mountaineering. Here, and other places, climbing the local stuff was traditional, to start, and was only practice for the real thing. Mountains.

That, here, and I suspect elsewhere, was a goodly part of the flap when bolts first started showing up. Sheer outrage at this desecration of what was, yes, probably right next door to sacred. The pursuit of BIG objectives, in difficult and dangerous places, weather and all....seriously lessened and insulted by bolts. Not reapected.

Eventually, of course,  "sport" climbing became inevitable, and grudgingly accepted, as has gym climbing. Not necessarily universally respected, even now, lol.

But there's still absolutely no comparison, or not much, from gym to outside on bolts, to trad, to true alpine pursuits, and it's about like expecting people who like violin concertos to go out headbanging on the weekend, lol! Maybe you appreciate other genres....maybe not.

As to grades? 

Especially post bolts coming in, or right along with bolted routes getting developed? At least some of those people traveled around. The same names showed up on my local crap as showed up at other places around the west. I'm 100% sure there was at least a little one upsmanship going on, between home grown crushers and some rando from CA showing the local yokels what was possible. That certainly happened here.

Plus?

Fun! Just pure, plain fun. There's a heckuva lot of respect for ability, always has been, and, you yourself know what a joy it is to see the seemingly impossible happening right in front of you!

H.

Edit to add, in the getting around the west category?? 

Beckey. Lol!

Old lady Hwrote:

There's a heckuva lot of respect for ability, always has been, and, you yourself know what a joy it is to see the seemingly impossible happening right in front of you!

I feel there's even more respect for trying hard, regardless of ability...  

Weather is finally turning here in the Mid-Atlantic.  Got outside for the first time since Nov 13.