New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #33

apogeewrote:

The pendulum will swing back, however. In the meantime, I’m limiting my exposure to the steaming hot sewage that is coming out of Washington these days- the media’s hyperbolic hand wringing is only exacerbating this drama. I’ve found peace of mind in focusing on other projects, climbing, hiking, and thinking in geologic time. This, too, shall pass.

I wouldn't take that for granted. I doubt the transition in 2028 will be uncontested and drama-free. There are lessons from 20th century history that we should learn from.

Alan Rubinwrote:

WF---I am very curious about the report you mention---and, even without reading it, am somewhat dubious about it's authenticity. It surely couldn't have been produced by the OSS, as that organization didn't exist prior to the war. And, again, prior to the start of the war, the isolationist US had very little in the way of a foreign intelligence capability--though both the military services and the State Department did have some intelligence services. 

Here is a report from 1943.  Not before WW2 but the OSS in mentioned:

https://www.thejournal.ie/hitler-report-1943-intelligence-2008960-Mar2015/

Other interesting links:

https://www.archives.gov/iwg/declassified-records/rg-263-cia-records/rg-263-report.html

https://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/2001/nr01-76

Buck, this is not the first time a word from you has given me some direction. I appreciate the conversation these last few days even though I know not everyone loves the topic but if we’re talking about climbing into one’s 70s and maybe even 80s health topics are important.

So shingles vaccine it is, tetanus is a no-brainer, I’m thinking pneumonia vaccine would be a good one for me although apparently it is only protective against bacterial pneumonia. I will call my doctor tomorrow to schedule these, but I will try to get them one at a time rather than all at once. I’ve been pretty sick this time. There is not one orifice that is not involved.    Thank you all!

It doesn’t take long away from Climbing for me to feel that familiar gratitude for this gift of the outdoors and beautiful rock. Listening to Randy Leavitt, now I want to see if I can apply even a little of his technique to the new route.  Watched him on his Book of Hate and other dihedrals, omg.  Stem, stem, stem!!! 

Bob Gaines has told me about his days of talus running in Yosemite.  I hope his talus was more stable than mine. This is one of my favorite hikes, but it is nerve-racking during snake season.  And every other rock wobbles. 

Does anyone here run/walk talus (talii?) just for the love of it? 

For Lori: not to diminish other reports here but I don't recall the shingles vaccines (initial and booster) being particularly harsh. Wasn't any worse than annual flu shot to my recollection, which has been a day of feeling miserable at most. Seems I felt crapy for a day after the booster.

I know of people who have had shingles and to risk that rather than get the vaccine is not something I would recommend. Maybe talk with your doc.

Eric Engbergwrote:

Here is a report from 1943.  Not before WW2 but the OSS in mentioned:

https://www.thejournal.ie/hitler-report-1943-intelligence-2008960-Mar2015/

Other interesting links:

https://www.archives.gov/iwg/declassified-records/rg-263-cia-records/rg-263-report.html

https://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/2001/nr01-76

Well, yeah, 1943 is very different than 'before the war' --OSS was fully operational by then, anyway the analysis seems pretty accurate ( especially from a more 'modern' vantage point) and, to some extent, the comparisons with Trump are pretty obvious--fundamentally both are narcissists--pretty much everything flows from that.

Lori Milaswrote:

I will call my doctor tomorrow to schedule these, but I will try to get them one at a time rather than all at once. I’ve been pretty sick this time. There is not one orifice that is not involved.    Thank you all!

So sorry you're having that much trouble, Lori! I will warn you (not to deter you, just to be aware) that the second dose of the shingles vax literally put me at a 1% WHOOP recovery. So make sure you don't plan anything for the day after. Obviously, not everyone is the same, and I hope it doesn't affect you that way!

I wish I'd known about the shingles vaccine earlier, because I'd have gotten it sooner. I had no idea it was available at age 50. I also didn't realize how seriously the condition can affect you. And I had no idea that 1/3 people get shingles in the US (which is what I just read here). Seems like a lot to me.

Does anyone here run/walk talus (talii?) just for the love of it? 

No way! I never even did that when I was younger. I'd probably break something in record time.

Lori Milaswrote:

Buck, this is not the first time a word from you has given me some direction. I appreciate the conversation these last few days even though I know not everyone loves the topic but if we’re talking about climbing into one’s 70s and maybe even 80s health topics are important.

So shingles vaccine it is, tetanus is a no-brainer, I’m thinking pneumonia vaccine would be a good one for me although apparently it is only protective against bacterial pneumonia. I will call my doctor tomorrow to schedule these, but I will try to get them one at a time rather than all at once. I’ve been pretty sick this time. There is not one orifice that is not involved.    Thank you all!

It doesn’t take long away from Climbing for me to feel that familiar gratitude for this gift of the outdoors and beautiful rock. Listening to Randy Leavitt, now I want to see if I can apply even a little of his technique to the new route.  Watched him on his Book of Hate and other dihedrals, omg.  Stem, stem, stem!!! 

Bob Gaines has told me about his days of talus running in Yosemite.  I hope his talus was more stable than mine. This is one of my favorite hikes, but it is nerve-racking during snake season.  And every other rock wobbles. 

Does anyone here run/walk talus (talii?) just for the love of it? 

Absolutely.  Back in my caving days we would literally run over huge breakdown blocks for hundreds/thousands of feet at a time, and in a couple special places for almost a mile.  Like caving parkour without the flips :) Still love it today.  The challenge is going fast enough to not let your weight settle in any one place for too long.  It's actually one of those things that becomes easier the faster you can go.

Not since I was young... 

Lori Milaswrote:

Buck, this is not the first time a word from you has given me some di

Does anyone here run/walk talus (talii?) just for the love of it? 

Lori, I think you’re confusing talus and scree. Scree is much smaller pebbles (marble size) that can be descended like skiing corn. Talus consists of larger rocks and boulders and is a great place to roll an ankle.

I *love* cruising talus. Several years ago while on a solo Sierra backcountry trip, I outlined some bits to write up a more cohesive piece about developing this skill. Never did it, though, cuz I doubt there’s much of an interest in it…most So Cal ‘climbers’ hate the stuff, and avoid it at all costs. But since you’ve asked, here’s my outline:

How to cruise talus & scree

Light pack

Study map

Develop eye for stable talus with practice (run beach jettys)

Talus with lots of lichen or plant life tends to be more stable

Stay on your feet- minimize use of hands/leaning

Use poles where appropriate- put them away when not (or hold in downhill hand)

If terrain is steep enough to touch (while standing) with uphill hand, no poles! 

Poles are better for lower angle small talus/scree

Macro navigation: pick a line that minimizes steep scree or loose talus

Practice, practice!

(It’s sort of enjoyable zen Sisyphus kinda way)

Go slow at first to develop eye for stability

Forward momentum helps- don’t stop in the middle of a dicey spot- find a stable spot to rest or routefind

Use caution with handholds! Are they stable?

Be aware of partner’s location- yell ‘rock’!

Appropriate footwear: approach shoes better for limited talus & no snow. Midweight boot better for prolonged talus/snow

Use caution with transitions from snow/rock- punching through meltouts can seriously injure knees

Have a 100 yd goal, but keep an eye on every step!

If it moves, get off it! Fast!

Try to relax and move fluidly 

Try to walk on tops of rocks- not between. Takes skill and confidence, but is more energy efficient and faster 

Edge, smear, smedge- whatever sticks. Try to keep shoe dry.

On scree: place each foot deliberately- kick steps- move slower and fluidly- avoid thrashing at it

Colden, apogee… this is definitely talus not scree. (unless Bob who knows this field disagrees and calls it something else like plain old scrambling.) 

I love your list apogee.  I think perhaps I would have to find more level field to practice on because this is a pretty steep incline all the way. I could never run it. I’ve tried it both with and without poles.  But I’ve actually tripped over my own poles and gone flying so once I get a good start, I leave the poles behind.

Coming down is much harder. I challenge myself to descend without butt scooching even one time. But what I have recently realized is if I do trip even a tiny bit I’m going down face first into whatever rocks or bushes below. I thought if I fell I would naturally fall backwards on my butt but no, it’s headfirst. If I had poles in my hands, I wouldn’t be able to break a fall.  So hands-free always on the way down.

But it’s a great workout and my reward is the view from my perch

dragons… one percent on your WHOOP? You’re going for the Gold, girl!   I really don’t wanna suffer with that second shingles vaccine. Maybe I will get lucky. I’m a little cowardly about this. 

What inspired me to get into talus running was this article by Doug Robinson that appeared in the 1975 Chouinard Catalog:

Running Talus

Yosemite Valley has some great areas for running stable talus fields. Below the Three Brothers and below the east side of El Cap are two of the best spots. I used to love running talus when I lived in Yosemite Valley for a few summers in the early 1980’s.

Lori Milaswrote:

Does anyone here run/walk talus (talii?) just for the love of it? 

Royal Robbins used to run down talus slopes occasionally. Also, a few climbers would try no-hands bouldering problems. Neither has survived the test of time it seems.

From "Running Talus"(1975):

"Talus running is the bouldering of the mountaineer. Just as bouldering emerged from rock
climbing as a form of practice but then began to show some independent life of its own,
talus running began as a necessary evil, something to be endured between the lake and
the peak. It is viewed now as a nursery for the more compact rocks above; it may yet
aspire to the status of an independent sport."

Lori: Don't do it. Try a little no-hands bouldering on very small rocks. Not 20 footers. Just my opinion.

I had a case of shingles. Ran from my back around the side above the waist.  It wasn't terrible, sorta like a bad case of poison ivy, but I guessed what it was and got antivirals within a day of the rash.  I can't get Shngrix because (a long time ago) I was  paralyzed from the waist down for a while with something that might have been Guillain-Barre syndrome, and if you've had that you can't get a flu shot or Shingrix.

Alan Rubinwrote:

WF---I am very curious about the report you mention---and, even without reading it, am somewhat dubious about it's authenticity. It surely couldn't have been produced by the OSS, as that organization didn't exist prior to the war. And, again, prior to the start of the war, the isolationist US had very little in the way of a foreign intelligence capability--though both the military services and the State Department did have some intelligence services. 

Alan, you're likely right about the OSS and I apologize for the mistake. Regarding foreign intelligence capability, I don't think putting together something like that would have required more than one or two observers to attend rallies and meetings, read speeches, and speak with the opposition and journalists. Pre-war, I think (a phrase I hate) that Germany was still open and the foreign press was in Berlin and other parts of the country, yes? 

and, to some extent, the comparisons with Trump are pretty obvious--fundamentally both are narcissists--pretty much everything flows from that.

Uncertainty and mistakes aside, my point was that people immediately assumed I had written about Trump but the source was a psychiatric profile of Hitler. I'm not sure where that leaves J.D. Vance and his comments on the AfD.

Reading along this discussion about Trump and our current politics: I think we have turned the corner and there’s no going back. I don’t know if we should go back.

About 10 years ago while I was on vacation here in Joshua Tree I got a call from my office that our server had been hacked and there was a ransom notice. I thought it was a joke. By the time our computer guys were called in and I reported it to Farmers I realized the gravity of the situation. Overnight a Russian org had gotten past all of our security and backups and grabbed all of our data. For the next month, Farmers worked diligently with this Russian group and paid them $5000 in crypto. We started to get some data back and then they disappeared.  30 years worth of client data evaporated and we never got it back.  

So when I heard that Elon and some young techs were given full access to our national databases (supposedly read only— what, did they arrive with pencils and notepads to write it all down?) all I could think was that’s an irreparable breach.  And we weren’t ready? We had nothing in place to prevent this?  

It seems we weren’t ready for anything that Trump has done since he came on the scene in 2016.  We had the last four years to get ready – – and I could be wrong, but it feels like we spent more time hand ringing and blaming than being ready for the blitz that Trump promised and is delivering. We seem to be in a constant state of shock and helplessness, trailing behind him with anemic lawsuits,. “He did what?”.  Shame on us for our unpreparedness but also given the state of tech these days maybe this is how it’s gonna be. Sleepy Joe vs Space X.  

—-

I had to leave this little project for a while. It got too cold and windy. But also – – speaking of unpreparedness – – I had no idea what this climb required.  I had none of the muscles for it. I didn’t have the endurance. So I hope when it’s warm enough to go back to it Im a little more prepared.  (This is a little rest spot at the halfway point)

feels like this  

John Gillwrote:

Royal Robbins used to run down talus slopes occasionally. Also, a few climbers would try no-hands bouldering problems. Neither has survived the test of time it seems.

I was leaving the Happy Boulders with my son on a very busy Sunday afternoon and while I was attempting one last problem he saw a no hands slab problem listed in the guide book.  I was reluctant to try at first due to the large number of boulderers but 

my family and my sons friends were all trying it, giggling and having a great time.  I wish I could say pretty soon others joined in, but all that happened was we got strange looks and friendly nods . That’s him on a failed attempt.

Lori, the place for talus/scree hopping is the Sierras. Probably the most difficult portion of the Palisades hikes. Used to climb up there weekly. Drive 300 miles or more in my old Honda Civic and climb up the Palisades, Olancha, Whitney mountaineers route is basically talus.

Probably takes a month hiking up weekly to get used to the altitude, then you don’t need to acclimate  each trip.

After a year or so of this, I learnt about rock climbing and stopped hiking  

Lori Milaswrote:

Reading along this discussion about Trump and our current politics: I think we have turned the corner and there’s no going back. I don’t know if we should go back.

About 10 years ago while I was on vacation here in Joshua Tree I got a call from my office that our server had been hacked and there was a ransom notice. I thought it was a joke. By the time our computer guys were called in and I reported it to Farmers I realized the gravity of the situation. Overnight a Russian org had gotten past all of our security and backups and grabbed all of our data. For the next month, Farmers worked diligently with this Russian group and paid them $5000 in crypto. We started to get some data back and then they disappeared.  30 years worth of client data evaporated and we never got it back.  

So when I heard that Elon and some young techs were given full access to our national databases (supposedly read only— what, did they arrive with pencils and notepads to write it all down?) all I could think was that’s an irreparable breach.  And we weren’t ready? We had nothing in place to prevent this?  

It seems we weren’t ready for anything that Trump has done since he came on the scene in 2016.  We had the last four years to get ready – – and I could be wrong, but it feels like we spent more time hand ringing and blaming than being ready for the blitz that Trump promised and is delivering. We seem to be in a constant state of shock and helplessness, trailing behind him with anemic lawsuits,. “He did what?”.  Shame on us for our unpreparedness but also given the state of tech these days maybe this is how it’s gonna be. Sleepy Joe vs Space X.  

I'm not sure what you expected to be done. Pass legislation? No chance. Executive order? Trump would issue his own overturning anything Biden did. Some people have tried to stand in the way, but they are being removed. And when the president has a complicit Senate and House , there isn't much to be done. Sure, lawsuits are being filled and injunctions issued, but the courts move slowly and the damage is already being done. 

Most rational people realize the danger and folly of allowing a bunch of kids access to our most sensitive systems , but not Trump, he doesn't care and is beholden to Elon. And Elon doesn't care about government spending and waste, he just wants the data and information and wants to bring down the various government agencies who were a thorn in his side. The tech libertarian wet dream of dismantling the government is starting to happen and its going to hurt a lot of people. I'm all for reducing government waste, but this isn't the way to do it.

Gary, you’re right. And I apologize for continuing to post on a topic that so many really hate.

What Trump and Elon planned seems to have worked pretty darn well. Their speed, efficiency, courage, and boldness was impressive and the fact that within three weeks, they have achieved a complete government takedown without the slightest regard for the United States Constitution. 

Six of our park Rangers have now been fired, maybe more. Here is our response which I am sure touches the heart strings of Mr. Trump and will cause him to immediately reverse course