Using clove when cleaning sport pitches

Cloves are for tying into the middle rope, figure 8's are appropriate for tying in the end. Yes... you're unlikely to ever experience a failure with a well dressed clove and plenty of tail in the application you're describing...and yes it's a strange application for it, and not "best practice". It's unusual you would have problems untying an 8 after just putting bodyweight on it, maybe try dressing and stressing it better. 

Chad Miller wrote:

Really?  I’m 225 pounds and even when whipping on a figure 8  with a Yosemite finish I’ve never had a problem untying. 

Gods I have. They don't call it a penalty knot for nothing. I think it's the main argument for tying in with a bowline or reverse overhand.

But that sort of points to the lack of need for the clove. Tying an 8 on a bight, or whatever, and clipping it will take a lot less time than fighting apart your welded 8 follow-through after lobbing repeatedly at the crux. 

A reasonable benefit I see to the clove is when you get to the ground. Just unclip the rope and you're ready to pull. Could prevent someone pulling a knot up to the rings.

Tie in with a brotherhood, floss with a clove, have an ironic mustache, climb in capris, only use hexes, it’s all fair game.

Best way to stay alive is to find something that works and stick with it. do it the same every time. be methodical. 

I use clove hitches for lots of uses, including primary anchor tie-in for belays. But in a belay situation you can bet your ass (you can!) that I have an 8 backing me up somewhere in that anchor. I don't like to commit my life to a single clove hitch to save 2 seconds and some tiny extra amount of forearm strength to untie the thing. As for flossing, 8 on a bight takes little to no extra effort to untie after lowering.

But I celebrate individuality. If a partner chooses to lower with a clove, I trust that partner's decision. Que sera sera.

Alpine Butterfly is easy to tie and untie and much more reliable than a clove. Otherwise 8 on a bight for sure.

Chad Miller wrote:

Really?  I’m 225 pounds and even when whipping on a figure 8  with a Yosemite finish I’ve never had a problem untying. 

I changed to the Hard is Easy method that's supposed to be easier to untie... If I whip I'm still at the base for five minutes untying my knot. I think I'm going to move to the Scott's locked bowline when climbing with my regular partners. I currently weigh about the same as you but I experience it even at my much lower sending weight of 190. 

Ricky Harline wrote:

I changed to the Hard is Easy method that's supposed to be easier to untie... If I whip I'm still at the base for five minutes untying my knot. I think I'm going to move to the Scott's locked bowline when climbing with my regular partners. I currently weigh about the same as you but I experience it even at my much lower sending weight of 190. 

This. Luckily my habit pattern was already ingrained to tie the figure 8 the “easy to untie” way—glad I didn’t have to relearn it. I also weigh about 190 dressed to climb. That, and with the Yosemite finish on my 8 I haven’t ever had a knot I couldn’t untie… but then I rarely take multiple long whips… (if I did = bowline, most likely).

Before I saw that Hard is Easy video I had no idea about the difference in tying the 8. 

Thanks for all the insights yall! Some really good points made, i will probably just stick to the figure 8 on a bight but fun to think about why i do things the way i do them 

I agreed a figure 8 on a bight with body weight is very easy to untie. That being said I've led and been lowered off of 600+ sport routes (24HHH) on just a single clove with an ~8inch tail and it only ever welds tighter and tighter to the point it becomes quite hard to untie.

As someone who regularly does tree work with cranes for a living, we tie off many a 1-5k pieces with clove hitches.

Lowering on a clove is a totally fine application (if you are comfortable with it) but some safety guru who has only ever rock climbed is always going to tell you you’ll die .

nick lundburg wrote:

What tie-in knot are you using?  Looks like a rethreaded eskimo bowline.

Anyway, I rap not lower, to save wear on my rope and belayer.

Funky stuff in Asia huh. Always heard it was an enlightened place

Caleb wrote:

Gods I have. They don't call it a penalty knot for nothing. I think it's the main argument for tying in with a bowline or reverse overhand.

But that sort of points to the lack of need for the clove. Tying an 8 on a bight, or whatever, and clipping it will take a lot less time than fighting apart your welded 8 follow-through after lobbing repeatedly at the crux. 

A reasonable benefit I see to the clove is when you get to the ground. Just unclip the rope and you're ready to pull. Could prevent someone pulling a knot up to the rings.

Tie in with a brotherhood, floss with a clove, have an ironic mustache, climb in capris, only use hexes, it’s all fair game.

I've done all of that.  Well , except for the ironic mustache.  Never had an issue untying a figure 8 with Yosemite finish even after taking 40 footers on hexes.   

Chad Miller wrote:

I've done all of that.  Well , except for the ironic mustache.  Never had an issue untying a figure 8 with Yosemite finish even after taking 40 footers on hexes.   

You sir, need a mustache.

Eric Moss wrote:

What tie-in knot are you using?  Looks like a rethreaded eskimo bowline.

Anyway, I rap not lower, to save wear on my rope and belayer.

just a rethreaded bowline, a german taught me it though idk if he got it from an eskimo or not

I would like to take the opportunity to say I rappel off fixed hardware. Your welcome 

Jabroni McChufferson wrote:

I would like to take the opportunity to say I rappel off fixed hardware. Your welcome 

thank you, this comment changed my life and i will be doing everything differently 

Caleb wrote:

You sir, need a mustache.

I have a mustache.  Just not an ironic one.  

Jabroni McChufferson wrote:

I would like to take the opportunity to say I rappel off fixed hardware. Your welcome 

Many people don’t know how or why that is done.  But thanks!

I've switched to a BOB for this application. Fast to tie, secure, easy to untie.
https://www.climbwithadam.com/tips/the-bowline-on-a-bight-an-introduction