Climbing grades indoor vs outdoor

According to this website, at least 115 people have climbed 5.15. 

https://www.99boulders.com/hardest-sport-climbs

So probably thousands have climbed 5.14

410 people have logged a 5.14 on 8a this year.  I would imagine the number of people who have climbed 5.14 sits around 1000

Connor Dobson wrote:

There are also not "scores" of people climbing 5.14 lol

Consensus is that there are "scores"

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

Consensus is that there are "scores"

Fact is there are hundreds, speculation is that there are thousands.  5.14 has become pedestrian 

Connor Dobson wrote:

I've sent almost a number harder on a rope outside and boulder the same grades. There are also not "scores" of people climbing 5.14 lol

I just looked this up in a dictionary. Sorry, English isn't my first language and it was late.

5.14a is only 8b+. If that is the lowest requirement, there's easily thousands of people who climb that. 5.14d is 9a, which while very hard is still regularly climbed by dedicated people without sponsors (or social media presence).

Pino Pepino wrote:

I just looked this up in a dictionary. Sorry, English isn't my first language and it was late.

5.14a is only 8b+. If that is the lowest requirement, there's easily thousands of people who climb that. 5.14d is 9a, which while very hard is still regularly climbed by dedicated people without sponsors (or social media presence).

Yes but 14d is a pretty meaningless grade to most climbers. Especially in the context of comparing indoor vs outdoor grades. I think the hardest I have ever seen set in a rope gym in 14c in SLC which is overrepresented in terms of strong/pro climbers.

>14a as a max RP grade is only achieved by an incredibly small fraction of climbers, usually with years of intense dedication to the sport (and good luck with other life circumstances and genetics). The point I was making is that there are comp kids who can climb things harder than this within a relatively short time frames once they start climbing on real rock, so there is actually a substantial cross over from plastic climbing to real rock.

FWIW, I think the reason there is so much confusion about the comparison in grades is that indoor and outdoor grades have different curves. I think V0 or 5.9 in a commercial gym is certainly going to be easier than a comparable grade outside. The grade curves tend to match up, at least for me, somewhere in the v6-v8 range (or around 5.11+ on a rope). Outdoor climbs tend to be easier than indoor climbs to me above those grades. This is also completely conflated with preferred style, your typical outdoor crags, your specific gym. In my personal experience, I have onsighted 12a more often outside than inside despite splitting my time fairly equally between both.

I do agree that moderate gym climbers tend to have a bit of a shock when first going outside because they have never read complex movements, have never had to use small feet and easy gym climbs tend to be soft. Those factors tend to matter less as the grades go up.

It is the same thing for strong boulderers/sport climbers climbing trad for the first time. I know of many people that could send a >5.13 trad route but would flail on 5.10 splitter crack climbing because again the movement is more similar at the higher grades. It's all the same shit at the end of the day resin or rock, clippys or widgets in cracks.

Connor Dobson wrote:

Yes but 14d is a pretty meaningless grade to most climbers. Especially in the context of comparing indoor vs outdoor grades. I think the hardest I have ever seen set in a rope gym in 14c in SLC which is overrepresented in terms of strong/pro climbers.

>14a as a max RP grade is only achieved by an incredibly small fraction of climbers, usually with years of intense dedication to the sport (and good luck with other life circumstances and genetics). The point I was making is that there are comp kids who can climb things harder than this within a relatively short time frames once they start climbing on real rock, so there is actually a substantial cross over from plastic climbing to real rock.

Your line of argument is hard to follow. You were the one who brought up 5.14 as a point of comparison, I was merely pointing out that it is not a good reference as you are picking a pool of extreme outliers.

I agree with you that there is crossover for that pool of people. My argument is that this is considerably less true for the typical gym-only climber climbing 5.10/5.11 who goes outside for the first time/only occasionally.

EDIT: Saw your edit too late. I agree with many of your points. I too find climbing outside easier. I just don't think that's true for most people who climb (those who don't onsight 5.12).

Aaron K wrote: So probably thousands have climbed 5.14

I'm always shocked at how *few* people have ticked even fairly moderate problems on the board climbing apps.

Eg 55,000 people have logged the easiest Moonboard 2016 problem. And the easiest V5 has 30,000. So that's common as anything - but it drops off quickly.

The easiest 7A/V6 has only 16,000 ticks. Which is a lot, but if I went to a local football game and there were only 16,000 people in the stadium it would look really, really empty.

7B/V8 has only 7,000 ticks.

Now of course there's lots of different boards and many if not most people don't bother using the apps. But even if it's four or five times that number - it's still only a half-empty stadium of people.

Sam M wrote:

I'm always shocked at how *few* people have ticked even fairly moderate problems on the board climbing apps.

Eg 55,000 people have logged the easiest Moonboard problem. And the easiest V5 has 30,000. So that's common as anything - but it drops off quickly.

The easiest 7A/V6 has only 16,000 ticks. Which is a lot, but if I went to a local football game and there were only 16,000 people in the stadium it would look really, really empty.

7B/V8 has only 7,000 ticks.

Now of course there's lots of different boards and many if not most people don't bother using the apps. But even if it's four or five times that number - it's still only a half-empty stadium of people.

In my experience, that has more to do with most people not caring about actually ticking problems they send on the app

Mark Vigil wrote:

 5.14 has become pedestrian 

Cram it up your cramhole!!

Connor Dobson wrote:

Yes but 14d is a pretty meaningless grade to most climbers

Your American is showing

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

Your American is showing

Freedom is a truly great thing ain't it?

Connor Dobson wrote:

Freedom Ignorance is a truly great thing ain't it?

Sure is   

Each system unto itself.  A 5.12a in red rocks is not the same as the same grade in Donner.  For UIAA, the grade to begin truly climbing is 8, for Americans 12a. French grading doesn't care about 7c+, but 8a is known; Americans aim for 13a...the 9+ in UIAA is near non existent--its just a hard 9.

I can rarely do 7A in the gym, but it's also quite hard for me to have the "grrr" or the care to return because it will be gone soon. 7A outside, that's my potential flash wheelhouse at certain areas...inside, the lack of options for feet, the limit on extra little holds that may exist outside, etc., create a grade the setter feels appropriate...

As to the number of 9a climbers...Europe easily has more, cuz there are more 9a's. But of the estimated 44.5million climbers (per probably a slightly scientific study) 8b+ sends still show up as "news" on 8a.nu. 9a is still close to professional, definitely elite.

I've never seen a 9a on plastic...but I do agree that for a majority of climbing, around 5.11+/7a/8 and V6 (Not v5 weirdly)/7A begins to kinda...kinda...equal between gym and rock.

But.

I remember sends on rock.  I do not remember sends on plastic.  That is all ye need know on earth, and all ye need know.

TravisJBurke wrote:

I've never seen a 9a on plastic...but I do agree that for a majority of climbing, around 5.11+/7a/8 and V6 (Not v5 weirdly)/7A begins to kinda...kinda...equal between gym and rock.

I feel like the convergence between rock and gym is a lot higher than that, probably around 5.13- and V9-10.

Just from personal experience, I've flashed multiple 5.12a's in the gym on lead without it feeling very hard, and bouldered V7 and V8 (although the one V8 i did was probably a fluke). Outdoors the hardest I've sent, after multiple days of working, is 5.11c and V5.

And it's not because I'm more used to the gym - I do probably 80% of my climbing outside. The grades really are just easier, at least at the gyms I've been do.

What does it mean that my indoor and outdoor roped grades (actually bouldering too) are actually pretty similar?

I saw this gym climb grade on a route in Massachusetts this summer, lol, I guess some gyms don't inflate their grades!

Christina Moon wrote:

What does it mean that my indoor and outdoor roped grades (actually bouldering too) are actually pretty similar?

That you are not an old man shaking his fist at the sky?

Christina Moon wrote:

What does it mean that my indoor and outdoor roped grades (actually bouldering too) are actually pretty similar?

You climb in a gym that actually grades routes reasonably correctly?

Hardest I've climbed in a gym was a 5.10 at Active Climbing in Augusta, Georgia and I'm pretty close to 5.9 at The Edge in Melbourne, Florida. Does anyone have knowledge on any comparison? To be honest YDS really perplexes me and I have never seen any comparison scale that was accurate. I feel I have enough knowledge to determine bouldering grade, but definitely not YDS. Very odd. Very confusing.