Pain in My Girlfriend's Big Toes

So, my girlfriend has been trying to get into climbing for a while now. She is getting pretty strong in the gym, and she wants to get stronger outdoors and even start doing more multi-pitch routes. 

A major limiting factor for her, however, is some consistent pain that she experiences in her big toes when she climbs in her shoes. She started in some women's Miuras and then moved to the Scarpa Vapor V when she could no longer stand the pain in the Miuras. The Vapor V's have helped, but even they are still pretty limiting in terms of the pain they cause her.

The pain she describes is a sensation of focused pressure on a singular point on her big toes between the joint and the nail (or somewhere around that area). This is something that some of her friends (also women) have experienced, too, but they have only been able to offer very little help. You can even see the depression on her toe that the shoes leave once she takes them off. It's clearly a focused point of pressure in a single spot. 

Has anyone else experienced this? Is this a common issue? Does anyone have any recommendations?

Sounds to me she needs different climbing shoes, or, perhaps, just a different size of the same shoes she is wearing.
Advising beyond the dumb comment is impossible - we haven't seen your girlfriend's foot shape. 

Edit - was the spot of pain same in both Miuras and Vapors? Is the spot on both feet? Are feet the same size? Even though some climbing shoes are marketed for men/women they may be climbing shoe with the same last/foot shape, but slightly different volume distribution upper. Did your GF tried men's versions of both shoes? One thing to try, if you have access to decent selection is Evolv MORE aggressive shoes - I find their lasts provide wider and more anatomical for prominent big toe  toe box; Evolv has both high and low volumes versions of their shoes.

Maybe you need dancing lessons?

What is her street shoe size and what size are her climbing shoes?

I am pretty sure she is in size 8 for both street and climbing shoes. I'll have to double check, but she was careful not to squeeze into climbing shoes that hurt at the store. They just hurt when climbing.

And reading other comments makes me realize that I may not have made it clear that this problem seems to fall beyond the typical "too small" climbing shoe problem. I have been climbing for 15ish years now and I am pretty well acquainted with the pain of climbing in shoes that are too small. For a while, I thought that's what was happening here. But now I am starting to think it is something fairly specific. But maybe not!

Since switching from the Miuras to the Vapor V's ameliorated things a bit, my guess is an even flatter shoe with a stiffer sole, and maybe a half-size up, would do wonders.  If she wants to get outdoor on multi-pitch, comfort beats performance anyway.   It might be worth renting some different models and giving them a try to see what works for her.

I switched to a pair of Madrock Phoenix's after reading a brief article in Climbing Magazine about how beginner and intermediate climbers should be getting shoes with stiffer soles because their feet/toes simply aren't strong enough for more sensitive climbing shoes made for professional climbers, and honestly it made a huge difference.  Not only do I have less pain at the gym (and I can leave my climbing shoes on the whole session!), but I climb stronger.

Buy a larger shoe.  

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

Buy a larger shoe.  

That's what we thought. And we tried it! But it does seem to be something more specific.

Right on. So, foot shape and dominant toe type, perhaps. Align toe design of potential shoes to her foot shape?

Is it joint pain or superficial skin pain? Does her skin look red and irritated after a session?

make sure toenails are trimmed short. My toe starts to hurt in weird ways if I let the nail get even slightly long

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

Right on. So, foot shape and dominant toe type, perhaps. Align toe design of potential shoes to her foot shape?

Figure out her foot shape.
google “best climbing shoe for Xxx foot shape. Find a place she can try them on in person  or order from a place that will let you return.

Google toe protectors and buy some  e.g. Zen toes

Wear socks.  There are a few threads for the best sock brands for climbing. I like a brand called Outway

Basically you’re looking at a Mythos climber. No other shoe, that I’m aware of, will conform to the foot like the Mythos.

benefit is that they will conform to the climbers foot after 10-12 pitches.
The drawback is that, after a couple hundred pitches, they will start getting looser. At this point you can start adding a thin sock or find another like new pair on ebay for $50.
either way, should ameliorate the toe pain within 5-10 sessions/pitches. 

amarius wrote:

Sounds to me she needs different climbing shoes... we haven't seen your girlfriend's foot shape. 

Sounds to me like a low key way of asking for foot pics *wink*

I was gonna suggest upsizing but you've already thought of that.

Only thing I can think of is to go to a podiatrist & see what they say. Preferably a podiatrist that climbs. Maybe an esoteric anatomical issue that isn't apparent to us muggles.

I just buy those bunion shoe stretcher and work the area around the big toe. For multipitch I always use flat shoe or pop off my moderate downturn shoe whenever I get a chance.

She needs to strengthen her feet/toes. Look up some bunion stretches/exercises and also arch exercises. Her whole foot can become stronger and if she doesn't address it then expect more pain and suffering. Many climbers go through this because of the constricting nature of climbing shoes.

The critical issue is her motivation to deal with the issue herself.  I have had several long term live in climbing girlfriends and two climbing wives, so I know what I am talking about.  If she doesn't tackle the issue herself with energetic enthusiasm and a refusal to let anything stand in the way of her climbing, your efforts to solve the problem for her will only result in a temporary easing of this specific issue.  While this may allow you to climb with her for a little bit longer, in the long term you will reach a point where she becomes a drag-along and all your efforts to help her make climbing more comfortable and enjoyable will collapse like a car crumpling into a brick wall at high speed.  You will realize that you have wasted unrecoverable time, energy and motivation struggling for that next move in the pursuit of the myth of climbing bliss with an intimate partner and in the process lost the opportunity for many great climbing exploits.  That being said, if that is your life, you have to live with it.  I have come to terms with it.   

OK, so I’ve dealt with something along these lines in my “comfy” gym shoes. I generally wear pretty flat beater shoes in the gym — currently in a pair of UP Moccs that are very much sized for casual climbing. When I’m trying to toe in on a hold, like crimping with your toes, I find myself occasionally getting a sharp and sudden pain in my big toe. I think somehow the extra space in the toe of the shoe plus having strong feet results in a lot of pressure on that mid-nail space. I often have a bruise in the middle of the nail after this.

In my exclusively outdoor shoes which are more downturned and sized for performance, I’ve never had this problem. A counterintuitive suggestion would be to try a pair of more snugly sized shoes. A pair that really fits the feet should feel OK even when they’re somewhat tight (though you can definitely go too far with downsizing).

J A wrote:

The critical issue is her motivation to deal with the issue herself.  I have had several long term live in climbing girlfriends and two climbing wives, so I know what I am talking about.  If she doesn't tackle the issue herself with energetic enthusiasm and a refusal to let anything stand in the way of her climbing, your efforts to solve the problem for her will only result in a temporary easing of this specific issue.  While this may allow you to climb with her for a little bit longer, in the long term you will reach a point where she becomes a drag-along and all your efforts to help her make climbing more comfortable and enjoyable will collapse like a car crumpling into a brick wall at high speed.  You will realize that you have wasted unrecoverable time, energy and motivation struggling for that next move in the pursuit of the myth of climbing bliss with an intimate partner and in the process lost the opportunity for many great climbing exploits.  That being said, if that is your life, you have to live with it.  I have come to terms with it.   

Damn.

I’ve been dealing with some sharp pain in one of my big toes (sounds like similar to what you’ve described) for over a year and finally brought it up with my chiropractor. She did a couple sessions of “shockwave” treatment on the toe and joint. It Has now almost completely vanished except when I’m standing on real tiny stuff in tight shoes. After the couple of Chiro session regular old toe spreaders seem to take care of any residual pain. 

If you’re experiencing pain in your girlfriend’s toes, may I recommend a psychologist or a psychic?

Jokes aside- I’d recommend getting some almost loafer level, large, comfy non technical shoes like a sized up tarantula lace or an upmocc and spending some time climbing in those. All performance shoe all the time can be hard on the joints and general anatomy and not allow time to adjust/acclimate. 

I’ve experienced the same pain in my toes from a new pair of Scarpas. A wise friend recommended a rubber mallet. I beat the toe box and the heel counter. It took a couple of sessions. The shoes fit good now and they are my go to shoes outside.

I hope this works for your girlfriend.