New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #32

Well, I have been thinking about that quote “no one gets out of here alive.“. I had a personal physician who was dying of a glioblastoma, terminal brain cancer. He was fairly young, and it was totally unexpected, but he was so calm about it. Just matter of factly told me “we are all going to leave the planet sooner or later”. It sure put in perspective for me the desire to live my last years with intention and love.  I knew I wanted to do something big (my version of big).

But it feels so experimental being active at this time of life! I have looked to rgold to trailblaze ahead. And everyone here has been such an inspirational community. I have almost every one of the books mentioned above. I loved rock warriors way. I could respect Eric Horst’s book but found it was way too intense for me. 

I may use the barf urge as my cue to slow down.   It seems lately halfway through climbs I am suddenly ready to puke. Really hydrating seems to help.

Just reflecting on my five years here. I came with Randy Vogel‘s book all earmarked and sampling all the different routes I could. Now I fall in love with a single route and I am not interested in anything else.  

Guy,  I don’t know if it’s porn music. It’s just bad music. Why do climbing videos have such lousy sound? Like Muzak. 

Todd Berlier wrote:

Guy! This reminded me of this:

Before I do a surgery I'm a little anxious about I'll sit in the bathroom while the pet is being prepped for surgery to gather myself--,in a busy hospital it's the only private place and I can go thru the steps in my head. I did that and then watched a short Mellow video for some psyche. But the sound didn't work... And it was grunts and squeals and then screams of joy after the send. Turns out I forgot I had my phone hooked to the blue tooth speaker in surgery, so the techs were horrified thinking I was watching porn. I had to show them the video to convince them otherwise.

And yes, I was a little disappointed they even thought I was doing that, but I learned that today it's not acceptable to "kink shame," which I think is a good thing.

Classic story there Todd, entertaining the techs is a good thing! 

Ward, how long do you think power endurance training should be done for?  Seemed like it has been the weak link in my efforts on Journey, so I've been doing 4x4s (once a week) for about five weeks now in the hope for one more go on it this season. But i don't know how much longer it's wise to keep it up. 

GO

GabeOwrote:

Ward, how long do you think power endurance training should be done for?  Seemed like it has been the weak link in my efforts on Journey, so I've been doing 4x4s (once a week) for about five weeks now in the hope for one more go on it this season. But i don't know how much longer it's wise to keep it up. 

GO

I’ve a little bit of perspective here?

If the 4x4 are two grades below your max flash grade, you should be able to do them as warmups every session, and not just on occasion.

I hang 7:3 seconds for 7 sets and 7 on 30mm to 10mm on the Grindstone mk2. 4x4 on 2 grades below my flash grade are about the same as a one hang set. Theoretically, I should be able to do 7 sets of 4x4? I don’t, cause I do TR as described below.

Rest where you can and chalk up, 4x4 is more endurance than power for me. My current power is about V6/7 (Note: gym grades), so flash about V4/5. 4x4 on a V3/V4 should be about right. For a good overall body workout steeper overhangs are better, but down-climbing V4 on a roof is too much of a challenge for a 4x4 and would defeat the power/endurance aspects.

Touchstone/Kilter boards or similar are perfect for 4x4, at 45 degree overhang stay on the bigger holds just on the verge of crimping but not. Moonboard and Tension board are too difficult for me for 4x4, but if you max flash at V9 they may work fine as well?

If you have the option, do up and down route climbing at a gym on 2 grades below your max flash or on sight. My partners and I Top Rope, a difficult climb and an easier one, sometimes two difficult ones one right after another. That’s about 80 feet of climbing only resting a few seconds whilst being lowered. The other power/endurance drill is to downclimb as well. That makes it 160 feet up/down. Top Roping allows us to climb until failure. It’s much better than projecting a max difficulty route for power/endurance.

Keeping in mind, of course, there’s only ground up.   

Guy Keeseewrote:

Lori- I don’t think single pitch Rockclimbing comes close to being “an endurance event”. Probably more like power lifting, boxing, arm wrestling, running wind sprints things like that.
Things that require a tremendous energy release over a rather short amount of time.
Not being a sports physician- but I play one on the internet- I can only give you my opinion and advice on what has worked for me in the past.
For short bursts of power your muscles need to be up for what you’re going to try. And you had better train them beforehand. Example- you can’t time yourself doing 100 pushups unless you can do 100 pushups in the first place. Training to do 100 pushups involves many steps. There is a thing called MMF (momentary muscle failure) that becomes the hard wall you hit that stops you in your tracks. You can extend MMF by going to “it” regularly and often. It’s my understanding that your muscles develop the ability to withstand the buildup of lactic acid and continue to fire the muscle.

Keep trying hard.

Later 

Thank you again for this Guy. I thought about this last night realizing how helpful it is to have words to describe the work involved in climbing. Somehow, I’ve met a lot of runners and Iron Man types. It’s just not my game.

I know I’ve missed a lot, not getting to do days with long hikes in and eight or 10 easy pitches. That’s just not meant to be.  Although I have found myself even on 100 foot route yelling “is it over yet?”.    I’m a slow climber and sometimes it’s best just not to look up.

—-

I’m just going to leave this here, however unrelated to climbing. I’m REALLY worried about Tony.  There is a depression that has taken hold and a sense of resignation. I tried to persuade him to get out of the hospital bed and let me wheel him outside for some fresh air and sunshine. Absolutely not. He literally has not been outside that room for six weeks. He continues to lose weight and muscle. To placate me the nursing staff has been bringing him collagen shots. NOT.Complete protein and not real food, dammit. Lunch was a spoonful of unbuttered noodles and a bread roll. (yes, I’ve had meetings with the head of nursing and the dietitian. I just filed a complaint with the state. Whatever happens it’s not going to be quick enough for Tony.)

I think he’ll be discharged this week. I know he’ll walk through the door and realize he’s not equipped for this.I’ll be driving down today and bringing him his favorite gnocchi and Italian beef sandwich.  It’s a very frightening situation.

Hi! I have a question for you friendly NorCal folks: I’m going to be sending Xmas week in a Bear Valley airbnb with my three sons. I don’t ride lifts to ski anymore so I’m only bringing my skate skis. But the weather could be nice for bouldering? I’m wondering about that stretch of route 4 between Arnold and Bear Valley. I drove it a few times a couple years ago when I was down for my son’s HS graduation and it looked from the road like there was a lot of high quality rock but there was still feet of snow on the ground. I’m always happy to blindly explore, but if anyone knows of particularly good spots to park and find some easy problems, I’d love to hear your recommendations. I tried searching on here but found nothing under Bear Valley. Maybe I need a better search term. Or maybe it’s locals only lol. Thanks in advance.

CD - Are you travelling any farther south from Bear Valley? It would be my pleasure to meet up and climb with you here in JT.

Colden, that area you are talking about near Bear Valley is called Hell’s Kitchen. Super Topo has a link but not much information. http://www.supertopo.com/bouldering/Northern-California-Bouldering-Bear-Valley-Hells-Kitchen

There is also this: http://www.bookofboulders.com/HellsKitchen.html

If you DM me I can email you a scan from California Road Trip, which has a map of 29 of the boulder problems, plus a couple other spots.

Nice! Thanks, y’all. Much appreciated. I knew you guys would be super helpful. Brandt, next time I’m down that way I’ll definitely look you up (my sister in Manhattan Beach is kinda pissed I’m staying up north so I’ll be down that way eventually - maybe spring?). Spending New Years week in Half Moon Bay. Hoping for a winter storm to see Mavericks breaking (from the cliffs, of course). 

Lori sorry Tony is struggling. 

From my own experience there are several different levels of post surgery rehab. Mine encompassed three different facilities with three different levels of rehab. My first level sounds about like what Tony is getting now. I then went to a different facility that that incorporated 2-3 hours of therapy. After a couple of week there I was transferred again to another facility that upped the rehab to at minimum 6 hours of therapy a day.

I don't know if he has the option but I would seriously look into a different facility. What you describe sounds like end of life maintenance.

Wishing you both the best.

GabeOwrote:

Ward, how long do you think power endurance training should be done for?  Seemed like it has been the weak link in my efforts on Journey, so I've been doing 4x4s (once a week) for about five weeks now in the hope for one more go on it this season. But i don't know how much longer it's wise to keep it up. 

GO

Probably no more than six weeks.  However, if you are still making progress then keep going.  Eventually, if you don’t change it up you will plateau and maybe get injured since PE is very susceptible to over training.  Journey is definitely a PE route so you are also working it on your redpoint attempts.  If you are getting close I would drop the PE training and just rest and try to send!   Good luck, that was the last 13 I did at Rumney and one of my favorites.

Wondering if Todd has ever explored the bouldering at Mount Rubidoux? I think me and hubby went there once when we first moved to SoCal with our shoes and bouldered a couple of easy things.  We didn't have any of the existing guidebooks, just wandered around.  Yesterday we did a walk there, so I checked out MP - lots of pretty hard documented stuff here now. It was warm and sunny.

Riverside Quarry is easily visible in the distance from the trail.  I went there twice when I first moved down here - bought a copy of Louie Anderson's guide.  it's the closest climbing area to my house.  But I decided it was too dangerous and took it off my list.  Sadly there have been a couple serious accidents there and one fatality due to the bad rock.

So, about training … for success, etc. 

The best advice I’ve ever come across is from Joan Benoit Samuelson who said in her approach to training runs was that at the start of her run when she got to the end of her lane she; if she felt good would go right, if she didnt feel so good she would go left.  She did ok by that approach.

I’m not sure how it applies to me except by giving me a built in excuse for not training appropriately;-)

Happy Holidays 

Li Huwrote:

I’ve a little bit of perspective here?

If the 4x4 are two grades below your max flash grade, you should be able to do them as warmups every session, and not just on occasion.

I hang 7:3 seconds for 7 sets and 7 on 30mm to 10mm on the Grindstone mk2. 4x4 on 2 grades below my flash grade are about the same as a one hang set. Theoretically, I should be able to do 7 sets of 4x4? I don’t, cause I do TR as described below.

Rest where you can and chalk up, 4x4 is more endurance than power for me. My current power is about V6/7 (Note: gym grades), so flash about V4/5. 4x4 on a V3/V4 should be about right. For a good overall body workout steeper overhangs are better, but down-climbing V4 on a roof is too much of a challenge for a 4x4 and would defeat the power/endurance aspects.

Touchstone/Kilter boards or similar are perfect for 4x4, at 45 degree overhang stay on the bigger holds just on the verge of crimping but not. Moonboard and Tension board are too difficult for me for 4x4, but if you max flash at V9 they may work fine as well?

If you have the option, do up and down route climbing at a gym on 2 grades below your max flash or on sight. My partners and I Top Rope, a difficult climb and an easier one, sometimes two difficult ones one right after another. That’s about 80 feet of climbing only resting a few seconds whilst being lowered. The other power/endurance drill is to downclimb as well. That makes it 160 feet up/down. Top Roping allows us to climb until failure. It’s much better than projecting a max difficulty route for power/endurance.

Keeping in mind, of course, there’s only ground up.   

None of this has anything to do with what I'm doing.  4x4 training, and any power-endurance training, is not a warm-up.  It is a break-your-body-down-and-crush-it.  You are getting all you can squeeze out of your body at just below the limit where you will fall.  Otherwise it's not power-endurance.

GO

Colden Darkwrote:

Nice! Thanks, y’all. Much appreciated. I knew you guys would be super helpful. Brandt, next time I’m down that way I’ll definitely look you up (my sister in Manhattan Beach is kinda pissed I’m staying up north so I’ll be down that way eventually - maybe spring?). Spending New Years week in Half Moon Bay. Hoping for a winter storm to see Mavericks breaking (from the cliffs, of course). 

My mother is pushing us to meet there for Christmas and New Years. Not sure yet, but I’ll for sure post if we do.

Would be cool to meet  “Colden Dark” fellow MP poster   

Ward Smithwrote:

Probably no more than six weeks.  However, if you are still making progress then keep going.  Eventually, if you don’t change it up you will plateau and maybe get injured since PE is very susceptible to over training.  Journey is definitely a PE route so you are also working it on your redpoint attempts.  If you are getting close I would drop the PE training and just rest and try to send!   Good luck, that was the last 13 I did at Rumney and one of my favorites.

Thanks, Ward, I figured it was something around that.  Regarding redpoint burns - my schedule allows me to get out to climb outside roughly once every six weeks, so the training I can do in the gym is absolutely crucial.  I've had three days total on Journey, with the last one about one month ago.  Hoping for one last burn this season if we get a nice sunny day soon.  I'm nearing the end of the six-week cycle you suggest as maximum, so it sounds like this my final attempt of the season (if I get one) should line up with the end of my PE training.  Fingers crossed.

Cheers,

GO

GabeOwrote:

None of this has anything to do with what I'm doing.  4x4 training, and any power-endurance training, is not a warm-up.  It is a break-your-body-down-and-crush-it.  You are getting all you can squeeze out of your body at just below the limit where you will fall.  Otherwise it's not power-endurance.

GO

You missed the part where I stated you climb to failure/pumped… that’s why TR is better to allow  you to climb to failure.

However, obviously, you have a different way of doing things. I won’t interfere with you again…

^^ phylp your picture of Rubberducks looks like a reclining ork. Cold & dark Hells Kitchen/Tamarack; lotsa boulders. Or Columbia. Come down the hill for some roped climbing at Table Mntn. Brad or I will escort you.

Hwy 4

GabeOwrote:

Thanks, Ward, I figured it was something around that.  Regarding redpoint burns - my schedule allows me to get out to climb outside roughly once every six weeks, so the training I can do in the gym is absolutely crucial.  I've had three days total on Journey, with the last one about one month ago.  Hoping for one last burn this season if we get a nice sunny day soon.  I'm nearing the end of the six-week cycle you suggest as maximum, so it sounds like this my final attempt of the season (if I get one) should line up with the end of my PE training.  Fingers crossed.

Cheers,

GO

God GabeO, that is terrible!  I have always trained mostly on my projects, with the gym as a supplement. On the recent 13 I did I figured out much easier beta after having been on it at least 20 days.  You have a ton of tricks left on the table that are undiscovered.  Once every six weeks there is no way that you have figured out anything approaching the easiest beta, especially on that route!

If you are on it occasionally and only training PE once a week there is probably no need to stop if you are training it that infrequently.  Are you also doing power and volume on other days?  You could continue that schedule indefinitely.  The six weeks max was assuming mostly PE training and PE redpoint attempts.  Once a week is generally considered a maintenance schedule.