New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #32

GabeOwrote:

Thanks, Ward, I figured it was something around that.  Regarding redpoint burns - my schedule allows me to get out to climb outside roughly once every six weeks, so the training I can do in the gym is absolutely crucial.  I've had three days total on Journey, with the last one about one month ago.  Hoping for one last burn this season if we get a nice sunny day soon.  I'm nearing the end of the six-week cycle you suggest as maximum, so it sounds like this my final attempt of the season (if I get one) should line up with the end of my PE training.  Fingers crossed.

Cheers,

GO

God GabeO, that is terrible!  I have always trained mostly on my projects, with the gym as a supplement. On the recent 13 I did I figured out much easier beta after having been on it at least 20 days.  You have a ton of tricks left on the table that are undiscovered.  Once every six weeks there is no way that you have figured out anything approaching the easiest beta, especially on that route!

If you are on it occasionally and only training PE once a week there is probably no need to stop if you are training it that infrequently.  Are you also doing power and volume on other days?  You could continue that schedule indefinitely.  The six weeks max was assuming mostly PE training and PE redpoint attempts.  Once a week is generally considered a maintenance schedule.

Wow, thanks all. What a great group of generous people in this thread. Sounds like Hell’s Kitchen was the search term I needed. Hand Traverse looks super fun. Spicer Terraces looks like maybe some fun easy soloing but guessing the road to the reservoir is probably closed for the season by now? Appreciate all the beta and very kind offers.

Lori, maybe get Tony some sativa gummies - could help improve both attitude and appetite.

Thank you KK and others. Very strange day today. I was headed down the 62 with all my goodies for Tony and there had just been a massive accident.  

So I thought I’d go through 29 Palms to Indio and try to drive like Jan but apparently there was an accident there as well. My tire lights came on. My phone wouldn’t charge. The good Lord was telling me to go home where I spent the afternoon finding out about Post surgical rehabs and I am so glad I did. Thank you KK. I sent your post to Tony to try to get him a little bit enthusiastic.

Meanwhile, I received a little more elucidation on training.

This at least approaches the subject, but what is left out is the subject of age and maybe gender. As Stacey Simms says “women are not small men.”  But I would add to that “older people are not younger people”… I don’t know something along those lines.  Not that we are less than, but we have such different physiological needs, and vulnerabilities – – that may be why there is an entire branch of medicine called Geriatrics.  But apparently those guys mainly study death and all the ways you can get there.  Nursing homes being one of them.  

You macho dudes (and dudettes) are talking about training for extreme climbing which is impressive. I just want to make sure I am getting stronger with more endurance and not breaking my body down by overreaching. 

Lori Milaswrote:

Thank you KK and others. Very strange day today. I was headed down the 62 with all my goodies for Tony and there had just been a massive accident.  

So I thought I’d go through 29 Palms to Indio and try to drive like Jan but apparently there was an accident there as well. My tire lights came on. My phone wouldn’t charge. The good Lord was telling me to go home where I spent the afternoon finding out about Post surgical rehabs and I am so glad I did. Thank you KK. I sent your post to Tony to try to get him a little bit enthusiastic.

Wow! That’s some accident!

Meanwhile, I received a little more elucidation on training.

This at least approaches the subject, but what is left out is the subject of age and maybe gender. As Stacey Simms says “women are not small men.”  But I would add to that “older people are not younger people”… I don’t know something along those lines.  Not that we are less than, but we have such different physiological needs, and vulnerabilities – – that may be why there is an entire branch of medicine called Geriatrics.  But apparently those guys mainly study death and all the ways you can get there.  Nursing homes being one of them.  

You macho dudes (and dudettes) are talking about training for extreme climbing which is impressive. I just want to make sure I am getting stronger with more endurance and not breaking my body down by overreaching. 

Older people aren’t just experienced young people? Hahaha, I’ll have to remember that!  

In the meantime, I started campus board with jugs.
According to the climbing strength calculator, I should be able to begin campus board from a shoulder strength perspective. I’m 185 pounds and I added 135 pounds or >170% total weight on a hang board. Put that to the test. Did jug rungs 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 and 1-3-5-7–5-3-1 seven times today. It wasn’t a struggle nor stressful on any portion of my body. Got on the “slopers”, didn’t have the strength to stay on. Can almost campus the medium rungs. Will add this to my “warmup” routine. End with max hangs before my climbing session. Climb tired is the new credo. Let’s see how that goes? Hopefully this up coming year, 1-4-7 on the medium rungs?

philip bonewrote:

Hwy 4

On the PCT, about three miles north of where you re-supplied the girls and I (several miles before Muir Pass when north bound):

And... you, showing up with our re-supply, earlier that same day:

C Miller wrote:

The Fun Factory and Agony Arch sectors at Riverside Quarry are totally fine as they were never quarried; they are however south facing and somewhat sheltered, making them ideal for temperatures in the 60's and lower.

That's one of the sectors I've climbed at but IIRC everything I got on had some manufactured pockets? Not worth a return visit to me.

philip bonewrote:

^^ phylp your picture of Rubberducks looks like a reclining ork. Cold & dark Hells Kitchen/Tamarack; lotsa boulders. Or Columbia. Come down the hill for some roped climbing at Table Mntn. Brad or I will escort you.

Colden,

I think that much of the upper Highway 4 corridor is gonna be too cold and/or inaccessible due to snow.

I don't know if you're familiar with the bouldering at Columbia, but it's quite well known throughout the central/northern part of California. It's probably an hour's drive from Bear Valley? It's low enough in elevation that it would be nice this time of year.

And Phil's correct: Table Mountain has some great sport climbing and I'd make time to show you around too (Phil lives a little closer to it than I do). It's fun and usually powerful stuff.

Had a ski with Isa and Bernie on Isa's trails. 

Then we fired up the sauna.

Did 4 ice plunges.. 

Lori, what the bloody heck are ‘tyre lights’?   

Carl Schneiderwrote:

Lori, what the bloody heck are ‘tyre lights’?   

When I was completely out of cell range, I got a verbal warning to pull off the road and listen to a message. It said that my tire warning system was malfunctioning and to get to a dealership immediately. It said not to trust the PSI. Level. At the same time, my car was strongly pulling and I wasn’t sure if I might be getting a flat. I still don’t know what’s going on, but there was no open road anywhere that would get me to Palm Springs. 

Carl Schneiderwrote:

Lori, what the bloody heck are ‘tyre lights’?   

Low pressure sensors…. A extra expense on modern cars.
They go bad after about 4-5 years due to moisture.
My tire guy recommends you just toss in a new set when you get new tires.
If you always use nitrogen in your tires it is a nonissue.

Re training….. just going climbing is enough training for me. I do know of some who trained and trained then had a break down of muscle (torn), worn out meniscus (from carrying a big pack up and down stairs) 

Li … if you are on top rope you never get that extra jolt of adrenaline! That’s how I always trained for power and endurance. If you get into a jam and keep going to save your bacon an added bonus is you can experience a “out of body” episode and watch yourself cranking.

Ward… you’re an animal! Keep it up. 

Guy Keeseewrote:

Low pressure sensors…. A extra expense on modern cars.
They go bad after about 4-5 years due to moisture.
My tire guy recommends you just toss in a new set when you get new tires.
If you always use nitrogen in your tires it is a nonissue.

Re training….. just going climbing is enough training for me. I do know of some who trained and trained then had a break down of muscle (torn), worn out meniscus (from carrying a big pack up and down stairs) 

Li … if you are on top rope you never get that extra jolt of adrenaline! That’s how I always trained for power and endurance. If you get into a jam and keep going to save your bacon an added bonus is you can experience a “out of body” episode and watch yourself cranking.

Ward… you’re an animal! Keep it up. 

• What's wrong with KICKING the tyres? I generally kick or punch everything that isn't working as a first port of call. Cindy screams at me "For fuck's sake stop PUNCHING things Carl!".  The other day I punched the refrigerator because it was making a funny noise. Yesterday, reversing my car in the driveway, I ripped a guard on a rose bush and on inspection I'd broken a little plastic clip that held it on.  Decided the best fix was sort of taping it on with climbing stickers.
• Training is not for me.  I just climb.
• Leading always causes me to try harder, as I equate every fall with certain death.  
  
  https://youtube.com/shorts/S2U-8Q3RaB0?si=OPgRb4jD5xzeR-Ao
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Guy Keeseewrote:

Low pressure sensors…. A extra expense on modern cars.
They go bad after about 4-5 years due to moisture.
My tire guy recommends you just toss in a new set when you get new tires.
If you always use nitrogen in your tires it is a nonissue.

I wondered why the dealer recommends Nitrogen?!?

Re training….. just going climbing is enough training for me. I do know of some who trained and trained then had a break down of muscle (torn), worn out meniscus (from carrying a big pack up and down stairs) 

Almost did this too… if I need more leg strength, I’d use a leg machine or “horse stance”, but climbing routes builds all the strength I need.

Li … if you are on top rope you never get that extra jolt of adrenaline! That’s how I always trained for power and endurance. If you get into a jam and keep going to save your bacon an added bonus is you can experience a “out of body” episode and watch yourself cranking.

I often lead easier climbs warming up, but TR the much harder stuff for power endurance. That way when I’m too pumped, I simply drop without a lead fall.

Hahaha, the “out of body” experience. Been there and done it “cranking” with all my strength on a 5.6 with ground potential.  

Unfortunately, or fortunately, those adventure days are long past me.

Ward… you’re an animal! Keep it up. 

Agreed!

Lori Milaswrote:

Thank you KK and others. Very strange day today. I was headed down the 62 with all my goodies for Tony and there had just been a massive accident.  

The b.s. on the Morongo Grade started two or three years back and you can't even drive on the thing anymore, There's a wreck on that thing every other ten minutes these days. So ridiculous!

Aside from finger strength, I think I can finally ditch the added weighted hangs.

I was able to do a few sets of 1-3-5-7-5-3-1 on the jug campus. Going to focus upon this and 7x7x7:3 hangs 30-25-20-10mm hangs and campusing.

Greg Oplandwrote:

The b.s. on the Morongo Grade started two or three years back and you can't even drive on the thing anymore, There's a wreck on that thing every other ten minutes these days. So ridiculous!

What was it before? I always check Google maps before I start to drive because if there is an accident on the grade I’d rather not be stuck. There’s no turn out or lane to pull over.  Was it always this way?

Li Huwrote:

You missed the part where I stated you climb to failure/pumped… that’s why TR is better to allow  you to climb to failure.

However, obviously, you have a different way of doing things. I won’t interfere with you again…

Yup, it's true, I did miss most of your post.  In just the first sentence you said "two grades below my flash grade", which is way too easy for effective power-endurance training, "use them as warmups", which is insane, since they should destroy you, and "do them every time, not occasionally" which is silly since I said I do them every week.  I did consider reading on, but the second sentence was about hangboarding, which would be great if I needed to work on contact strength right now, but I don't, and you went on to say your hangboarding was "about the same" as a 4x4.  So after that I stopped reading, as it seemed unlikely you had anything helpful to offer. 

As for me having a "different way of doing things" - do some reading about 4x4s.  When done right, you should barely be able to complete them - you should be absolutely at your limit.

Cheers,

GO

Ward Smithwrote:

God GabeO, that is terrible!  I have always trained mostly on my projects, with the gym as a supplement. On the recent 13 I did I figured out much easier beta after having been on it at least 20 days.  You have a ton of tricks left on the table that are undiscovered.  Once every six weeks there is no way that you have figured out anything approaching the easiest beta, especially on that route!

If you are on it occasionally and only training PE once a week there is probably no need to stop if you are training it that infrequently.  Are you also doing power and volume on other days?  You could continue that schedule indefinitely.  The six weeks max was assuming mostly PE training and PE redpoint attempts.  Once a week is generally considered a maintenance schedule.

Sigh.  Depressing when you put it that way.  I know it's terrible, but it is what it is.  My climbing time is very limited, though I do get more than just the one gym session a week.  I do also get one hour at the gym, most weekends, which is just enough time to lead up and down a warmup, do a second warmup, and get in one burn on a hard route.  I do that while my daughter is at climbing team.  Then I also do a hangboard session at home once a week.  For that I mostly work on core exercises because my elbows are still recovering, and any hard finger work is not advisable.  And anyway, I have the contact strength I need for Journey, it's the core strength and power-endurance I'm lacking.

All that being said, yes, I would throw away all of the above for a chance to work on Journey once or twice a week, but it's just not in the cards right now.  The worst of it is not just that more burns would uncover better beta, but that with a month (or three) between burns, it's very difficult (even with copious notes and video etc) to remember all the beta and not lose a lot of ground between visits.

Oh well.  I'm having fun, and happy to keep working on it as best I can.

GO

GabeOwrote:

Yup, it's true, I did miss most of your post.  In just the first sentence you said "two grades below my flash grade", which is way too easy for effective power-endurance training, "use them as warmups", which is insane, since they should destroy you, and "do them every time, not occasionally" which is silly since I said I do them every week.  I did consider reading on, but the second sentence was about hangboarding, which would be great if I needed to work on contact strength right now, but I don't, and you went on to say your hangboarding was "about the same" as a 4x4.  So after that I stopped reading, as it seemed unlikely you had anything helpful to offer. 

As for me having a "different way of doing things" - do some reading about 4x4s.  When done right, you should barely be able to complete them - you should be absolutely at your limit.

Cheers,

GO

I follow these and they’re working for me as well as most of the really good climbers I know.

https://uphillathlete.com/rock-climbing/bouldering-4-x-4-drills/

https://www.trainingbeta.com/4x4s/

Seriously, I’m just following advice… it’s not like I’m inventing crap on my own.

Li Huwrote:

I follow these and they’re working for me as well as most of the really good climbers I know.

https://uphillathlete.com/rock-climbing/bouldering-4-x-4-drills/

https://www.trainingbeta.com/4x4s/ 

Seriously, I’m just following advice… it’s not like I’m inventing crap on my own.

Okay Li Hu, I humored you and clicked on the links, expecting to find some one-off version of 4x4s that justifies your crazy definition of them. I found no such thing. The definitions there are totally normal, and miles away from what you think they are. 

That said, I have no time or interest in beating this dead horse any further. Too much else to do.

By the way, one of my best friends in college was named Li Hu!

Cheers,

GO