New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #32

Lori, You maybe don't want it to have been considered to be 'sacred ground', as you might find that ends up getting the formation closed to climbing!!!! I'm only being semi-facetious--look at what is currently happening in Australia and has already happened here, including in CA!!!! The fact that such rock formations are 'sacred' to some of us, sadly, carries no weight with the powers-that-be.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

nuff of the political crap. we are ruining this space. . 

 Well said, Nick.

philip bone wrote:

We need an over fifty logo to recognize each other at New Jack (not you Brad).

Aren't the gray hair, grizzled countenances, and creaky movements enough!!!

Well yeah, but I'm shy.

Like over fifty threads. You know marketing, labeling, groupt thinkt (no politics).

philip bone wrote:

We need an over fifty logo to recognize each other at New Jack (not you Brad).

Remind me to throw a nail at you when I see you next....

Ward Smithwrote:

The US has 750 military bases in over 80 countries around the world  We are a long, long way from anything even remotely approaching isolationism, lol.

Yes, absolutely bingo! Double bingo. Ward’s comment is exactly right. But the point of my earlier post wasn’t isolationism. It was naiveté. And like the isolationists of the 1930s, today’s American right is incredibly naive about how the real world works.

Returning for a minute to Ward’s post, which is interesting in itself. Yes, the U.S. has too many fingers in too many pies nowadays and it’s just not healthy. Iraq? How many lives (and trillions of dollars) wasted on false premises based on bad intel? The Middle East in general? How and why do we think we can accomplish anything of value there and why not scale way, way, way back? We should mostly let them sort it out.

Ask yourself this: how long before the incredible amounts of money we spend on defense becomes - in and of itself - a threat to our national security (overspending by a trillion dollars a year - something has to give)?

But Russia? Putin? A people making aggressive, unlawful and imperialist war? And threatening to continue doing so until the entire world order (and world peace) is shattered? Only the most naive would not see the extreme wisdom of supporting Ukraine (as we committed to do by the way in the early ‘90s - along with Russia and others - in exchange for their giving up their nukes).

And yet, much of America’s right fails to see this. Is it because Russian propaganda espouses “white superiority” theories? Is it because by “favoring” Russia the American right can “tweak” the libtards? Is it because the right’s current leader has some strange, strange affinity for Russia’s current dictator… and so they will too?

I don’t know. Probably a combination of these factors and others. But their naïveté is striking, wrong and dangerous.

End of political posts (for at least a while).

philip bone wrote:

Getting suited up for a burry day at GW. Want to join us?

I should, I could use the pump. But it's soooo difficult to drag myself down the hill if I'm not already going. Give me a little more warning next time and I'll make it for sure.

Speaking of marketing; with the tech titans and moolah mavens dabbling in mundo machinations foreign entanglements are enevitable.
warning? I’ve been doing this for as long as you have known me

Mark E Dixonwrote:

Questions for the SoCal folks-

We will be heading from Moe’s towards Santa Barbara and are planning to stop near Barstow for some sport climbing.
We know New Jack pretty well, and could go there again, but Fairview also looks interesting. Is there anywhere to buy a guidebook between here and there? If not, is MP adequate for getting around?

Finally, we are tent camping. Is the dispersed camping at Fairview safe to leave our stuff out while we climb? If not, is the camping at Horseman’s any better? 

Don’t camp at Fairview and definitely don’t camp at Horseman….. the meth folks love the camping at Horseman. I’ve seen them. Also anyplace you can drive to- they know about it.

Mark… Good camping, climbing at NJC and the 58 freeway gets you to Mojave fast with no shitty LA city snarled traffic. Mojave to SB offers a few scenic routes- some secret climbing climbing spots along the way- dm if interested.

The weather has been great this fall. If the forecasted rain happens later this week SB will be shut down.

Have a good trip 

Brad Youngwrote:

But Russia? Putin? A people making aggressive, unlawful and imperialist war? And threatening to continue doing so until the entire world order (and world peace) is shattered? Only the most naive would not see the extreme wisdom of supporting Ukraine (as we committed to do by the way in the early ‘90s - along with Russia and others - in exchange for their giving up their nukes).

Brad, it's absolutely OK for an American patriot to blindly support American imperialism.

However this war is unique in a sense that it's the first American war against a country that has an ability to launch a nuclear retaliation strike against American territory.
Why would any sane American (with a family and children) want to support this war that can easily escalate to a full blown nuclear exchange between the US and Russia?

This war is not about Russian world domination.
Russia has a weak economy and a weak military.
It doesn't represent a threat to any country.
Objective of this war is to prevent incorporation of Ukraine into NATO and deployment of American troops within a few hundred kilometers of Moscow.
"Biden" could have easily prevented this war by agreeing on a neutral status of Ukraine, but apparently peace was not his main priority.

https://twitter.com/alexharmstrong/status/1804206383555858497
Nigel Farage is absolutely spot on. Whilst ultimately Russia did START the war, the West provoked it.
The constant eastward expansion of NATO (a nuclear-armed alliance designed to defend against Russia) is almost on their borders.
When this happened to the USA (Cuban missile crisis), it almost triggered WW3 and a nuclear winter.

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1856172877688570095
Jeffrey Sachs explains how the US and NATO provoked war in Ukraine

I prefer being alive rather than dead.
YMMV.

2020 Election deniers on the Right must be very confused after this recent election. "Why didn't the Deep State steal this election, too?"

apogeewrote:

2020 Election deniers on the Right must be very confused after this recent election. "Why didn't the Deep State steal this election, too?"

I'm asking the same question. Dammit.

Yurywrote:

Brad, it's absolutely OK for an American patriot to blindly support American imperialism.

However this war is unique in a sense that it's the first American war against a country that has an ability to launch a nuclear retaliation strike against American territory.
Why would any sane American (with a family and children) want to support this war that can easily escalate to a full blown nuclear exchange between the US and Russia?

This war is not about Russian world domination.
Russia has a weak economy and a weak military.
It doesn't represent a threat to any country.
Objective of this war is to prevent incorporation of Ukraine into NATO and deployment of American troops within a few hundred kilometers of Moscow.
"Biden" could have easily prevented this war by agreeing on a neutral status of Ukraine, but apparently peace was not his main priority.

https://twitter.com/alexharmstrong/status/1804206383555858497
Nigel Farage is absolutely spot on. Whilst ultimately Russia did START the war, the West provoked it.
The constant eastward expansion of NATO (a nuclear-armed alliance designed to defend against Russia) is almost on their borders.
When this happened to the USA (Cuban missile crisis), it almost triggered WW3 and a nuclear winter.

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1856172877688570095
Jeffrey Sachs explains how the US and NATO provoked war in Ukraine

I prefer being alive rather than dead.
YMMV.

Spot on! I’m not even Russian nor am I pro-Russia, and I feel really bad for every Ukrainian and Russian killed so far. Mostly, I feel bad that the hatred created by a protracted war will continue on for generations.

Just don’t understand what American involvement was expected to accomplish, cause so far Europe is heading into a deep recession, inflation is high cause of sanctioning oil/gas from one of the largest suppliers, extended the war such that millions have been killed. The inevitability of Russia taking the crucial bits of Ukraine will happen in the end.

What did we (the West) accomplish?

apogeewrote:

2020 Election deniers on the Right must be very confused after this recent election. "Why didn't the Deep State steal this election, too?"

Cause everything the far right has been accusing the left of is exactly what they’d done to cheat.   

I'd rather be dead than a Putin ass licker, personally. I'm reminded of the America firsters of the 1930s.

By the way, the Russian economy is on the ropes and crumbling quickly

Yurywrote:

Brad, it's absolutely OK for an American patriot to blindly support American imperialism.

However this war is unique in a sense that it's the first American war against a country that has an ability to launch a nuclear retaliation strike against American territory.
Why would any sane American (with a family and children) want to support this war that can easily escalate to a full blown nuclear exchange between the US and Russia?

This war is not about Russian world domination.
Russia has a weak economy and a weak military.
It doesn't represent a threat to any country.
Objective of this war is to prevent incorporation of Ukraine into NATO and deployment of American troops within a few hundred kilometers of Moscow.
"Biden" could have easily prevented this war by agreeing on a neutral status of Ukraine, but apparently peace was not his main priority.

https://twitter.com/alexharmstrong/status/1804206383555858497
Nigel Farage is absolutely spot on. Whilst ultimately Russia did START the war, the West provoked it.
The constant eastward expansion of NATO (a nuclear-armed alliance designed to defend against Russia) is almost on their borders.
When this happened to the USA (Cuban missile crisis), it almost triggered WW3 and a nuclear winter.

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1856172877688570095
Jeffrey Sachs explains how the US and NATO provoked war in Ukraine

I prefer being alive rather than dead.
YMMV.

While I agree with you that Russia is relatively weak economically and militarily, it is ludicrous to say that they are not a threat, we are literally talking about them invading Ukraine. If it wasn't for NATO, Russia would have invaded the Baltics and long ago.

Every country has the right to make its own decisions regarding safety and security. If Ukraine wants to join NATO, it doesn't need Russia's permission. 

Putin may be an evil POS, but he's not an idiot. He would rather be alive than dead. Simple game theory shows that we are not on the brink of WW3.

Arguable whether we are not already in a sort of hybrid WW3, but if the world supports Ukraine properly with the weapons and intelligence, the chances are less that we will have to put boots on the ground or use our air force.

On another note, anybody do a new FA they are happy about?

philip bonewrote:

Well yeah, but I'm shy.

Like over fifty threads. You know marketing, labeling, groupt thinkt (no politics).

Li Huwrote:

Just don’t understand what American involvement was expected to accomplish, cause so far Europe is heading into a deep recession, inflation is high cause of sanctioning oil/gas from one of the largest suppliers, extended the war such that millions have been killed. The inevitability of Russia taking the crucial bits of Ukraine will happen in the end.

What did we (the West) accomplish?

Cui proudest?

American sanctions hit Europe (including Russia) pretty hard.
Standard of life of all Europeans deteriorated because of this.

However this war was rather beneficial for the US economy (US is a net exporter of oil and gas) and US military-industrial complex.
It's not personal - strictly business.

Greg Oplandwrote:

Hahaha! That’s great!

Thanks Mark, I deleted my thread because I need to get back to the real world and was getting sucked in to the political stuff, which frankly is a waste of energy. As I said, I put up a new 5.13 last month (my first post-60 5.13) and I need a new project that is not in Arizona.  I am really psyched about the Arizona boulder (V8 or maybe harder) but it is hard to send on a road trip.  I am so much more focused  on training and everything else when I have a local stretch goal.  Unfortunately I have picked the best stuff already around here.

My younger brother Chris (62) is climbing well, he had a project that he couldn’t do one of the moves on last year.   He sucked it up, lost ten pounds, and sent it last weekend,  12c maybe.  Let us know when things get back to normal and we’ll make a plan. Paula and I have a house in Wentworth that is eight minutes from the Runney parking lot.  And we have a swimming hole!