Climbing equivalent of running a marathon?

Spopepro O. wrote:

That’s really not true. It’s in the 99.95% of all folks who are competing in majors, and the number goes up from there adding non-majors. Saying it’s pedestrian is like saying anyone can climb 5.14 if they just were willing to try (and yes… I recognize people have said that here). I don’t think many people in this thread can run 5:20 mile pace for 200m. If you were fast enough to have to provide whereabouts, it’s no where near pedestrian. 

A "5:20mile pace for 200m" is 39 seconds. How is comparing a 40 second 200m even remotely the same as a sub 2.5hr marathon? 

And since everyone is arguing in anecdotes, I would put my life savings I could run under a 40 second 200m tmrw, and would not even be able to complete a marathon. That's like.....idk....trying to find the climbing equivalent of running a marathon.

I think our friend is trying to argue that 5:20 pace is super rare/elite level (I would equate it to the level of training needed to climb astroman with 4-5 hangs - so def not “elite.”).

I think its going to be different for each athlete. take the time out of it and say that any given athlete runs a marathon race at their best speed, what kind of climbing day would equal that level of suck. it will be different for everyone.  I have never run a marathon but my biggest speed hiking day was maybe 22 miles. with my age and injury level thats a beastly day for me but its was not even close to as beastly as Buck mtn which is maybe a 12 mile day?  but thats still just 4th and easy 5th class scrambling.  For me to get that wasted climbing I would need to do somthing like climb Moby Grape twice though who knows. Havent been up there in a decade so perhaps one lap on Moby would thrash me ;) 

Christian Hesch wrote:

I think our friend is trying to argue that 5:20 pace is super rare/elite level (I would equate it to the level of training needed to climb astroman with 4-5 hangs - so def not “elite.”).

What I think is happening here, is that you are a far better runner than you are a climber. So this sort of comparison skews towards running for you.

I didn’t send Astroman, I had a single hang in the green camalot then dyno to a chickenwing to enter the Harding Slot. I didn’t do any training for the climb, I just climbed fairly often. It’s nowhere near the hardest trad I’ve climbed. Never trained for any of it, just climbed a lot.

I worked hard at running for a while. I couldn’t go long enough without injuries to get much better. 5:20 is right around my lifetime best for a mile. 3:30 was my marathon best. For a few years, I put more effort into running than I did climbing. I simply didn’t have the natural talent to go any faster.

You probably ran under 5 minutes the first time before you could read.

If we really want to compare something to a marathon, I believe that a paved and supported century bike ride is pretty close. A hundo on a mountain bike or gravel bike is a lot harder, as is something with a ton of climbing like the Triple Bypass. But a run of the mill century with a food and beer tent at the finish line is pretty darn close.

This is probably the wrong website to really work that out though.

Christian Hesch wrote:

I think our friend is trying to argue that 5:20 pace is super rare/elite level (I would equate it to the level of training needed to climb astroman with 4-5 hangs - so def not “elite.”).

A.) it’s a horrible way to argue that 

B.) I agree with you that it’s not elite, but again would not compare it to a multipitch trad route. If anything a 5:20 mile is like a V10 boulder 

I don't think running is that ridiculous, I was doing a 5:59 minute mile for 3 miles after less than a year of running 4 days a week. I'd never tried for single mile times back then but I'm sure I could have done 5:20.

Running a 5:20 mile is very achievable for most people compared to freeing something like Astroman. 

I’ve run just a few marathons. It’s a tough comparison, but I think any big objective done car to car would equate the best. I think long approaches is the only thing that does compares well, not necessarily the difficulty of climbing. The Grand Teton car to car was harder than a marathon for me, but kind of similar feelings physically and mentally in the end. 

A lot of this discussion has been about comparing athletic equivalent of running a marathon, which is interesting. But how about comparing the social implications?

What is the "marathon" of climbing? Sport climbing 5.13? It is something that Eric Horst claims any fit person can do with the right training. And it seems like a lot of fit people do make it happen. Any other ideas?

Ladder Eater wrote:

A lot of this discussion has been about comparing athletic equivalent of running a marathon, which is interesting. But how about comparing the social implications?

What is the "marathon" of climbing? Sport climbing 5.13? It is something that Eric Horst claims any fit person can do with the right training. And it seems like a lot of fit people do make it happen. Any other ideas?

Isn't that, like, the whole point if this thread...?

Ladder Eater wrote:

A lot of this discussion has been about comparing athletic equivalent of running a marathon, which is interesting. But how about comparing the social implications?

What is the "marathon" of climbing? Sport climbing 5.13? It is something that Eric Horst claims any fit person can do with the right training. And it seems like a lot of fit people do make it happen. Any other ideas?

I think the bar for running a marathon is much, much lower. Mind you, I’m not talking about a “pedestrian“ 5:20 pace, but the far more common 5+ hour jog/walk that seemingly every middle aged schlub has checked off their bucket list.

Sport climbing 5.13 is at the upper limit of what a dedicated climber with average athletic ability can probably achieve. But it requires far more effort than training for/running a single marathon.

that guy named seb wrote:

I don't think running is that ridiculous, I was doing a 5:59 minute mile for 3 miles after less than a year of running 4 days a week. I'd never tried for single mile times back then but I'm sure I could have done 5:20.

Running a 5:20 mile is very achievable for most people compared to freeing something like Astroman. 

Running a single 5:20 mile is very different than completing a marathon at 5:20 pace.

And running a 5:20 mile is not achievable by most people anyhow. 

Permabeta wrote:

Running a single 5:20 mile is very different than completing a marathon at 5:20 pace.

And running a 5:20 mile is not achievable by most people anyhow. 

Achievable or realistic? 

It’s not achievable. I think a lot of normal people could go sub 7 with proper support and training. 5:20 is not pedestrian by any means, you’re probably in the top 1 percentile with that number, and the path to getting there involves lots of training, some half decent genetics, and probably some luck injury’s/time to train/etc. The issue with a 5:20 mile is the same issue with climbing 12/13…you tell your friends/neighbors/bartender they are gonna think it’s super legit. But compared to actually legit runners/climbers…there’s still 1-2 more levels to be had. We have a tendency to always look up and never down.

Interesting thread, for me it's very much a "why not both" situation.

In college I got really obsessed with running and managed a 5:00 mile at my best. I was trying to break the hallowed five minute barrier and entered a track meet put on by the school running club. The intensity was insane!! Loved the competitive aspect and trying to outgun the other runners down the homestretch. Unfortunately that particular day a big headwind blew up and my gun time was a few tenths off 5:00. Never got the chance to try again ......I do agree with Travis there is always 1-2 more levels of awesome people above you ... consider in that meet I was in a dead heat for like 3rd last place, lol.

Over the years I find myself running less and less, it's just such a grinder mentally and physically. I do like to run slowly once in a while and try to empty my head with all the pounding. More on the topic at hand, I would hesitate to compare running ability to climbing ability by grade, it would just really depend on the person. I'm all slow twitch muscles and really struggle with bouldering but enjoy long 5.10 routes. Just as an example. 

The closest climbing equivalent to running far would be big peakbagging or easy-soloing days in the mountains. Firing up the cardio engine and burning up the endorphins. Both running and climbing can get you there. That said, climbing satisfies a existential / spiritual urge for me in a way running never quite did.

Travis Haussener wrote:

It’s not achievable. 

The fact that people do it every day shows it’s achievable. 

I think a lot of normal people could go sub 7 with proper support and training. 

What are we considering “normal people” cause I have middle schoolers who run (the mile) once a year who can run a sub 7 minute mile. 

Interesting subject. I've ran several marathons and 50k's.  In 2019, I ran the Bataan Memorial Marathon in NM with a 38# pack in 5 hours 20 minutes which was absolutely the hardest effort I've ever put out in any race of any distance.  I'd never push myself that hard in climbing, it'd be too dangerous.  Climbing and running are so entirely different I can't wrap my head around how the two can be compared unless you just look at the endurance aspect.

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

Achievable or realistic? 

Both. Between age and overweight/obesity, a huge percentage of the population is incapable of running that fast, probably 95%+. 

Permabeta wrote:

Both. Between age and overweight/obesity, a huge percentage of the population is incapable of running that fast, probably 95%+. 

We aren’t talking about the gen pop, at least I’m not. It seems silly to include morbidly obese, inactive people in a conversation about what the climbing equivalent of running a marathon would be. If we are talking gen pop then, yeah, 99%+ of the population is probably incapable of climbing even 5.4 due to economic limitations, geographic isolation, etc. 

If we are talking about the average climber, which we should be, then some of y’all have very pessimistic cardiovascular expectations for each other.

5:20 mile is an achievable time that most reasonably fit men in their 20-30s could do in their first year or two of running with some solid dedication to training, no prior training history, and decent genetics. obviously better then average and would be considered impressive by many but not really an unexpected outcome. In terms of time spent and dedication required I don't think its anywhere near bouldering V10, maybe v6-7ish? sub-5 mile/sub 3hr marathon are pretty common goals but again pretty reasonable for a fit male in their 20s to get with a few years of serious dedicated training, but there will be plenty of local amateurs and high schoolers at every race that will run your socks off.

Total speculation but in terms of "impressiveness" bouldering V10 is probably something like running 2:40-2:45 in the marathon or 4:30 in the mile. And a 2:20 is like v13/14 i think (top level amateur for men and elite for women).

Kevin S wrote:

5:20 mile is an achievable time that most reasonably fit men in their 20-30s could do in their first year or two of running with some solid dedication to training, no prior training history, and decent genetics. obviously better then average and would be considered impressive by many but not really an unexpected outcome. In terms of time spent and dedication required I don't think its anywhere near bouldering V10, maybe v6-7ish? sub-5 mile/sub 3hr marathon are pretty common goals but again pretty reasonable for a fit male in their 20s to get with a few years of serious dedicated training, but there will be plenty of local amateurs and high schoolers at every race that will run your socks off.

Total speculation but in terms of "impressiveness" bouldering V10 is probably something like running 2:40-2:45 in the marathon or 4:30 in the mile. And a 2:20 is like v13/14 i think (top level amateur for men and elite for women).

You’d be surprised how common V10 is these days. Half the kids on any reputable gym’s youth team probably climb V10