New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #31

The Gunks Halloween costumes rock!  

+1

Kristian Solemwrote:

The North Face of San Jacinto, March 2023. Taken from a spot accessible by 4WD up in the wind turbines north of the 10 Fwy.

Edit, 45 minutes later the light on Snow Creek was better (no shadows) but the clouds were gone. Boring...

Here are some shots looking down, facing the other way.
https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/118752091/backcountry-skiing-southern-california?page=18#ForumMessage-124212487

Google “dodgy elbows.”  Protocol has worked for me.  I use a 4-pound hammer.

PTRwrote:

Google “dodgy elbows.”  Protocol has worked for me.  I use a 4-pound hammer.

I will use whatever is around, hammers, frying pans, weights, cans of food but almost always prefer a Theraband flex bar if available.  The red bar has saved me multiple times in the past, these days I just keep up with stretching during and after workouts and never have to do any therapy.  

Thanks, PTR and M M. I will check out your recommendations.
Accordingly to some, it seems that it is ok—even recommended—to continue to climb BUT way, way below maximum so as to avoid those hard crimps. I saw another recommendation to downclimb easy routes in the gym to allow the arm to work on “eccentric” movements. 

I'm not a physical therapist nor have any equivalent background, but my 'gut' ( as well as 'a bit' of personal experience), suggests that one needs to be particularly careful while down climbing if you have problem shoulders, elbows or other such joints, as there is an increased risk of shock loading those joints while doing so, especially if tired ( resulting in 'sloppier' climbing). I do agree with the general benefits of down climbing, for multiple reasons, when said joints are healthy!!!!

Daniel Joderwrote:

Thanks, PTR and M M. I will check out your recommendations.
Accordingly to some, it seems that it is ok—even recommended—to continue to climb BUT way, way below maximum so as to avoid those hard crimps. I saw another recommendation to downclimb easy routes in the gym to allow the arm to work on “eccentric” movements. 

Daniel this guy, a climber, has a great number of resources on his website:

I know people have discussed elbows here before, I cannot remember all that has been covered.  If you have not already, it's probably worth seeing a orthopedic md for a diagnosis. I've been super lucky with my elbows.  Only one period of elbow pain that I can remember, which responded well to ultrasound and electrostim and deep tissue massage in PT.

My bias for getting a proper diagnosis comes from my husband's experience.  He was having terrible elbow pain that wasn't resolving.  He went to our excellent arm/hand person (who saw a lot of climbers in his practice), thinking he had tennis elbow.  With just the exam, the doc told him no, he had inflammation and golfer's elbow (so a different rehab routine).  He also told him that part of the problem with the pain was that he had a lean build and his muscle was bigger than the average person in a place where it then was causing compression on a nerve.  Said this was not uncommon. That that nerve was not important at all, and he could do a simple surgery to clip it, and the pain would be gone! Instead he eventually ended up giving my husband a cortisone shot, and that combined with the PT, solved the issue.

This is worth a read:

Will Conservatism Recover?

I’d suggest reading it in the context of the viewpoint of a significant portion of America, and their dismay at where the GOP currently stands- in that respect, try to get past the characterization of Harris in the first paragraph, no matter how much you might agree or disagree with it.

I follow NR pretty regularly, and starting doing so after the 2016 election, after experiencing the common ‘WTF just happened?’ reaction, and desiring to listen to other, rationally expressed views that I’d obviously been ignorant to. NR is based in very traditional conservatism, which will obviously be in conflict with any political view that lies in any extreme end of the spectrum, but it is intelligently expressed, whatever your viewpoint.

I'm only in my fifties, so YMMV, but here's my protocol for elbow issues: 

1. If you have enough experience with your own body and prior injuries to diagnose it, do so. If not, see a really good doctor or PT who knows their stuff. 
2. Total rest from what caused the injury, treating with ibuprofen and daily ice until the pain is reduced enough to be able to do PT exercises (if a week doesn't do it, go back to your assumed injury and consider if you may have misdiagnosed yourself) 
3. Continue ice and ibuprofen, but also begin mild PT, which may mean modifications to some of the exercises. If any exercises exacerbate the symptoms for more than a short time after doing them, go back a step.
4. Cut out the ibuprofen and make sure things are at least stable. If not, go back a step. 
5. If things start to improve, start climbing again.  Take it easy, don't go nuts.  Avoid any movements you think may have caused or may aggravate the issue. 
6. If a month of PT does not show at least 50% improvement, reconsider if the diagnosis and or PT is correct. 
7. Continue doing PT for at least a couple of months after you are mostly healed. 
8. Consider lower frequency (one to three times a week) PT forever to keep the injury at bay. 

At the moment I'm at stage 8 for one elbow issue and somewhere between 6 and 7 for another. 

In climbing news my family got out to a local crag this Sunday with another family with young kids. Despite a rather iffy forecast it turned out to be very pleasant and we all had a great day on the rock. At the end of the day, I got on a great route called Cro-Magnon.  I was excited, but I haven't climbed trad at that level for quite a while, so I wasn't sure how it would go. It turned out perfectly, challenging but within my limit of performing well. 

Now a question to the group. I wanted to log my ascent here, as I have started tracking stuff on MP. I had only been on the route once or twice before, probably about twenty years ago, and the only thing I could recall about it is something you can just as well see from the ground, that a deep pod in the middle affords a decent rest. I called it an onsight in my log. Is that fair, or should I change that to a red point? 

Cheers! 

GO

apogeewrote:

This is worth a read:

Will Conservatism Recover?

I’d suggest reading it in the context of the viewpoint of a significant portion of America, and their dismay at where the GOP currently stands- in that respect, try to get past the characterization of Harris in the first paragraph, no matter how much you might agree or disagree with it.

I follow NR pretty regularly, and starting doing so after the 2016 election, after experiencing the common ‘WTF just happened?’ reaction, and desiring to listen to other, rationally expressed views that I’d obviously been ignorant to. NR is based in very traditional conservatism, which will obviously be in conflict with any political view that lies in any extreme end of the spectrum, but it is intelligently expressed, whatever your viewpoint.

NR is a reasonable publication. I agree with what’s written, and admit that was the most “radical” thing I’ve ever read there.

Neither option sounds good but with Trump, I believe he will deport many people and USA will start a hot war with Iran. With Harris, it will continue to be an Israeli war and less deportations.

Li Huwrote:

NR is a reasonable publication. I agree with what’s written, and admit that was the most “radical” thing I’ve ever read there.

Neither option sounds good but with Trump, I believe he will deport many people and USA will start a hot war with Iran. With Harris, it will continue to be an Israeli war and less deportations.

What on earth makes you think Trump will start a hot war with Iran? Do you remember the events of summer 2019? Had Trump followed the counsel of his top advisors including Bolton and Pompeo he would have bombed Iran after they shot down one of our multi-million dollar drones. Trump's initial response was typical Trump: "Iran has made a big mistake!" A few days later he announced that we would not retaliate militarily "because the cost in human lives would be inordinate." Leaders around the ME and the rest of the world took a collective deep breath. There was a lot of tension running up to this event, including Iran attacking merchant shipping, and capturing the crew of an American patrol boat who they held for a few days. Bolton pushed publicly for an attack after Trump spoke, and got fired for the deed. Pompeo was a silent player in the administration from then on. 

There is no evidence that Trump will attack Iran militarily. His record shows that he went out of his way, and against pressure from a National Security Advisor and Secretary of State, to avoid such an attack. 

Now a question to the group. I wanted to log my ascent here, as I have started tracking stuff on MP. I had only been on the route once or twice before, probably about twenty years ago, and the only thing I could recall about it is something you can just as well see from the ground, that a deep pod in the middle affords a decent rest. I called it an onsight in my log. Is that fair, or should I change that to a red point? 

My personal policy is to call it a redpoint if I remember (or have evidence) that I've been on a route. 

But I think it's fair to go either way, whichever you prefer. 

I'd only suggest that you pick one way or the other and be consistent, otherwise your ticks will eventually get confusing. 

Unfortunately, these days, unless I can see that I've ticked it on MP, I often have absolutely no idea whether I've climbed something!

Li Huwrote:

Neither option sounds good but with Trump, I believe he will deport many people and USA will start a hot war with Iran. With Harris, it will continue to be an Israeli war and less deportations.

Deportations of people illegally here is a good thing, right? You make it sound like deportation is automatically bad.

FrankPSwrote:

Deportations of people illegally here is a good thing, right? You make it sound like deportation is automatically bad.

For sure it would be a good thing if you wanted food prices to double or triple or do you actually believe that migrants are taking jobs from Americans who want to work in the fields or the meat packing & dairy industries and that food prices would decline because hard working Americans will replace the lazy immigrants.

GabeOwrote:

I'm only in my fifties, so YMMV, but here's my protocol for elbow issues: 

1. If you have enough experience with your own body and prior injuries to diagnose it, do so. If not, see a really good doctor or PT who knows their stuff. 
2. Total rest from what caused the injury, treating with ibuprofen and daily ice until the pain is reduced enough to be able to do PT exercises (if a week doesn't do it, go back to your assumed injury and consider if you may have misdiagnosed yourself) 
3. Continue ice and ibuprofen, but also begin mild PT, which may mean modifications to some of the exercises. If any exercises exacerbate the symptoms for more than a short time after doing them, go back a step.
4. Cut out the ibuprofen and make sure things are at least stable. If not, go back a step. 
5. If things start to improve, start climbing again.  Take it easy, don't go nuts.  Avoid any movements you think may have caused or may aggravate the issue. 
6. If a month of PT does not show at least 50% improvement, reconsider if the diagnosis and or PT is correct. 
7. Continue doing PT for at least a couple of months after you are mostly healed. 
8. Consider lower frequency (one to three times a week) PT forever to keep the injury at bay. 

At the moment I'm at stage 8 for one elbow issue and somewhere between 6 and 7 for another. 

In climbing news my family got out to a local crag this Sunday with another family with young kids. Despite a rather iffy forecast it turned out to be very pleasant and we all had a great day on the rock. At the end of the day, I got on a great route called Cro-Magnon.  I was excited, but I haven't climbed trad at that level for quite a while, so I wasn't sure how it would go. It turned out perfectly, challenging but within my limit of performing well. 

Now a question to the group. I wanted to log my ascent here, as I have started tracking stuff on MP. I had only been on the route once or twice before, probably about twenty years ago, and the only thing I could recall about it is something you can just as well see from the ground, that a deep pod in the middle affords a decent rest. I called it an onsight in my log. Is that fair, or should I change that to a red point? 

Cheers! 

GO

Many thanks to phylp phylp and Gabe O.  I’ll report back as I go through the rehab process. 

Jim Malonewrote:

For sure it would be a good thing if you wanted food prices to double or triple or do you actually believe that migrants are taking jobs from Americans who want to work in the fields or the meat packing & dairy industries and that food prices would decline because hard working Americans will replace the lazy immigrants.

I want people to have permission from this country to enter. Simple as that.

too bad it's not even close to "simple as that"

FrankPSwrote:

Deportations of people illegally here is a good thing, right? You make it sound like deportation is automatically bad.

How are they planning to find them? They’re here illegally. Many legal people are also on the chopping block. 11M plus another 3M people.

This isn’t good for anyone who even looks like an illegal immigrant, but how can you tell?

That’s the problem.

Li Huwrote:

How are they planning to find them? They’re here illegally. Many legal people are also on the chopping block. 11M plus another 3M people.

This isn’t good for anyone who even looks like an illegal immigrant, but how can you tell?

That’s the problem.

Deportation of people here illegally is a good thing. How they accomplish that is up to them.

What is your suggestion? Just stop deportation?

Kristian Solemwrote:

What on earth makes you think Trump will start a hot war with Iran? Do you remember the events of summer 2019? Had Trump followed the counsel of his top advisors including Bolton and Pompeo he would have bombed Iran after they shot down one of our multi-million dollar drones. Trump's initial response was typical Trump: "Iran has made a big mistake!" A few days later he announced that we would not retaliate militarily "because the cost in human lives would be inordinate." Leaders around the ME and the rest of the world took a collective deep breath. There was a lot of tension running up to this event, including Iran attacking merchant shipping, and capturing the crew of an American patrol boat who they held for a few days. Bolton pushed publicly for an attack after Trump spoke, and got fired for the deed. Pompeo was a silent player in the administration from then on. 

There is no evidence that Trump will attack Iran militarily. His record shows that he went out of his way, and against pressure from a National Security Advisor and Secretary of State, to avoid such an attack. 

Kris, keep your fricken logic to yourself.  What are you trying to do, cause problems? Trump's the boogeyman, and nothing you say will change that.