Hot Takes 2024

Tal Mwrote:

Eldo sucks.

I'm not just talking about the climbing, which, in my limited experience in the park (Center Route, Doub-Griffith, some random Rincon routes), is fun but nothing standout. I mean seriously, the "classic" pitches I've done climb largely like a fairly standard granite face climb, but with worse friction and rock. I'm also talking about the asinine ethics. Rap bolting R rated lines? Known for runouts over bad/weird gear but plenty of hyper tightly bolted 5.12 and higher climbs? No bolts at dogshit belay stances but a separate fully bolted rappel line is kosher? It's got all of this history of climbing ethics over the years, and instead of continuing to allow routes to be adapted to fit whatever a current ethic might be, it instead tries to hold all of these often diametrically opposed ethics in hand at once. It's insanely frustrating. 

But honestly, the worst part isn't even the fact that it's being done, it's that it's being celebrated. It's impossible to have a conversation with an Eldo diehard about the constant inconsistencies that are so highly lauded without their justification devolving into something like "it's history" or "it's eldo, you wouldn't get it". It's not this cool, quirky personality trait that makes it more endearing. It's annoying and serves more as a playground for blowhards to feel better about the fact that they're completely unwilling to climb anything harder than 5.9 unless it's as well protected as Handcracker, and as a history museum, than it does as a quality, cohesive climbing area.

Eldo's best traits are its density, access, and its beauty. If you love it, I'm genuinely stoked you have a place special like that to you. Trust me, my favorite climbing areas are objectively dogshit. But my god, Eldo diehards are the climbing equivalent of Cowboys fans and people who insist that XYZ isn't real music. Come off of it.

Lol you might find more people that agree with you here than not.

Tal Mwrote:

Eldo sucks.

I'm not just talking about the climbing, which, in my limited experience in the park (Center Route, Doub-Griffith, some random Rincon routes), is fun but nothing standout. I mean seriously, the "classic" pitches I've done climb largely like a fairly standard granite face climb, but with worse friction and rock. I'm also talking about the asinine ethics. Rap bolting R rated lines? Known for runouts over bad/weird gear but plenty of hyper tightly bolted 5.12 and higher climbs? No bolts at dogshit belay stances but a separate fully bolted rappel line is kosher? It's got all of this history of climbing ethics over the years, and instead of continuing to allow routes to be adapted to fit whatever a current ethic might be, it instead tries to hold all of these often diametrically opposed ethics in hand at once. It's insanely frustrating. 

But honestly, the worst part isn't even the fact that it's being done, it's that it's being celebrated. It's impossible to have a conversation with an Eldo diehard about the constant inconsistencies that are so highly lauded without their justification devolving into something like "it's history" or "it's eldo, you wouldn't get it". It's not this cool, quirky personality trait that makes it more endearing. It's annoying and serves more as a playground for blowhards to feel better about the fact that they're completely unwilling to climb anything harder than 5.9 unless it's as well protected as Handcracker, and as a history museum, than it does as a quality, cohesive climbing area.

Eldo's best traits are its density, access, and its beauty. If you love it, I'm genuinely stoked you have a place special like that to you. Trust me, my favorite climbing areas are objectively dogshit. But my god, Eldo diehards are the climbing equivalent of Cowboys fans and people who insist that XYZ isn't real music. Come off of it.

This is the first time I've heard someone from CO talk shit about CO instead of aggressively spray about how much sicker it is back home I'm proud of you bud.

Tal Mwrote:

Eldo sucks.

I'm not just talking about the climbing, which, in my limited experience in the park (Center Route, Doub-Griffith, some random Rincon routes), is fun but nothing standout. I mean seriously, the "classic" pitches I've done climb largely like a fairly standard granite face climb, but with worse friction and rock. I'm also talking about the asinine ethics. Rap bolting R rated lines? Known for runouts over bad/weird gear but plenty of hyper tightly bolted 5.12 and higher climbs? No bolts at dogshit belay stances but a separate fully bolted rappel line is kosher? It's got all of this history of climbing ethics over the years, and instead of continuing to allow routes to be adapted to fit whatever a current ethic might be, it instead tries to hold all of these often diametrically opposed ethics in hand at once. It's insanely frustrating. 

But honestly, the worst part isn't even the fact that it's being done, it's that it's being celebrated. It's impossible to have a conversation with an Eldo diehard about the constant inconsistencies that are so highly lauded without their justification devolving into something like "it's history" or "it's eldo, you wouldn't get it". It's not this cool, quirky personality trait that makes it more endearing. It's annoying and serves more as a playground for blowhards to feel better about the fact that they're completely unwilling to climb anything harder than 5.9 unless it's as well protected as Handcracker, and as a history museum, than it does as a quality, cohesive climbing area.

Eldo's best traits are its density, access, and its beauty. If you love it, I'm genuinely stoked you have a place special like that to you. Trust me, my favorite climbing areas are objectively dogshit. But my god, Eldo diehards are the climbing equivalent of Cowboys fans and people who insist that XYZ isn't real music. Come off of it.

I don't get it. You make it sound like bad/weird gear, seriously questionable rock, and unbolted dogshit belays, is something undesirable?? These are the main advantageous features of Eldo. Embrace it! This is what makes Eldo stand out compared to the other front range crags that have been converted to sanitized overcrowded outdoor gyms (BoCan, Clear Creek, NTable, Staunton, Devil's Head ...). Get a double set of RPs, triple blue+red ball nuts, maybe some microtricams and vintage Crack'n'Ups, and you'll never need to wait in line for any route 5.9 and higher.

Patrikwrote:

I don't get it. You make it sound like bad/weird gear, seriously questionable rock, and unbolted dogshit belays, is something undesirable?? These are the main advantageous features of Eldo. Embrace it! This is what makes Eldo stand out compared to the other front range crags that have been converted to sanitized overcrowded outdoor gyms (BoCan, Clear Creek, NTable, Staunton, Devil's Head ...). Get a double set of RPs, triple blue+red ball nuts, maybe some microtricams and vintage Crack'n'Ups, and you'll never need to wait in line for any route 5.9 and higher.

You selectively bolding fractions of sentences in my comment, completely ignoring any hint of context or nuance immediately preceding or following, is a great visual representation of the way I imagine most people on MP read

Totem cams are safer than c4's

Hot take: If cliffhanger bolt guns existed in the 1950s, there would only be sport climbing. 

Eric Mosswrote:

Totem cams are safer than c4's

Before or after they fail and explode out of the rock? 

Connor Dobsonwrote:

Hot take: If cliffhanger bolt guns existed in the 1950s, there would only be sport climbing  seas of grid-bolted rust stains. 

Stop Saying Send...Like saying "mandarle" in SA. Sounds like a pablo escobar code. Send the gnar bruh.

Ignacio Van Oosterwyjkwrote:

Stop Saying Send...Like saying "mandarle" in SA. Sounds like a pablo escobar code. Send the gnar bruh.

Or we could just use the other half of the word? Send comes from Ascend. And since we are adding random 'S' characters... We can just move to 'Ass the gnar bruh.'   

Not to get too technical, but aren’t they actually saying “mándale”? That would be the familiar command form, with “mandar” being the actual infinitive meaning “to send” (normally as in a message or a letter). Over here, they tend to use the verb “enviar” instead. So now that I have this idea maybe I’ll try it out at the crag next time and start shouting, “¡envíale!” at all the young hotshots trying to redpoint their first 6a! 

Connor Dobsonwrote:

That is style not ethics. 

Also this is just good tactics for some routes.

Hot take: most people that shit on projecting and tactics have never actually had good tactics. 

Because cars are much more comfortable, take up less space and are much more stealthy?

You are 29 dude, the clouds can't hear ya

Stealthy? What are you planning a coop? unless you drive a Kia soul you aren’t smaller than my tent, and still questionable.

Noah Roachwrote:

Stealthy? What are you planning a coop? unless you drive a Kia soul you aren’t smaller than my tent, and still questionable.

Did you walk your tent to the crag?

1. if you don't or didn't climb v9 or 5.12 in your first year of climbing I think you should just pack it up
1a. if you've been climbing for 3+ years how do you still suck??

2. trad climbing is inevitably going to die once all the old people retire, its boring and expensive
2a. why is everything so expensive :(

extra lukewarm take: stuff fa'd&graded in the 70s-90s should be updated, people climb 5.15 now (itll also happen when the old people pass)

Jason Arguetawrote:

1. if you don't or didn't climb v9 or 5.12 in your first year of climbing I think you should just pack it up
1a. if you've been climbing for 3+ years how do you still suck??

2. trad climbing is inevitably going to die once all the old people retire, its boring and expensive
2a. why is everything so expensive :(

extra lukewarm take: stuff fa'd&graded in the 70s-90s should be updated, people climb 5.15 now (itll also happen when the old people pass)

1. Bro youre still stuck at V9??? youre the one who should be packing up, ive been climbing for a year and can flash the V19 proj brah

1a. with aiders and a fifi i can get up anything man...

2. Im pretty sure this is a troll, but ill reiterate, trad climbing does not need to be expensive. Seriously, theres plenty of used gear that is exactly the same as the new stuff (think old TCUs to new TCUs, or X4s to Z4s). and old used gear is still pretty damn cheap. I got my rack for 500 ish bucks, and just kept expanding. A piece per paycheck adds up before ya know it. 

2a. Ya man it kinda sucks. buying rope really hurts right now, although im sure they used to be more expensive. damn shame...

Jason Arguetawrote:

1. if you don't or didn't climb v9 or 5.12 in your first year of climbing I think you should just pack it up
1a. if you've been climbing for 3+ years how do you still suck??

2. trad climbing is inevitably going to die once all the old people retire, its boring and expensive
2a. why is everything so expensive :(

extra lukewarm take: stuff fa'd&graded in the 70s-90s should be updated, people climb 5.15 now (itll also happen when the old people pass)

Maybe if you weren't buying avocado toast and $6 lattes every five seconds you could afford a rope 

Eric Mosswrote:

Maybe if you weren't buying avocado toast and $6 lattes every five seconds you could afford a rope 

holy shit man inflation kicks peoples asses! How much was rope back in the day? Like I said I bet it was pretty outrageous

p.s. bold of you to assume most of us can afford anything other than gas and the occasional cheap piece of gear. Im too busy climbing to go to some cafe circlejerk lol

happy trails!

Hot take: trad dads are _more_ prissy about new bolts than they were in the 80s, they've just retreated to deified 'trad crags' like Eldo where the notable bolted routes are relics of the 80s. Imagine developing something like The Monument (a grid bolted cave right on the Eldo approach trail) or the Cathedral Cave (same thing at Cathedral Ledge) today. It'd be declared the arrival of the antichrist.

Also, total thread drift but those 'inflation' numbers from Eric are themselves massively inflated because he's using a conspiracy theorist's inflation 'methodology' that claims prices have on average gone up sixfold since 2000 (even the person who produces the ShadowStats numbers can't name a single product whose prices have gone up that much). 

Eric Mosswrote:

Maybe if you weren't buying avocado toast and $6 lattes every five seconds you could afford a rope 

Heres a more accurate look at what inflation actually has been in the past 43 years :)

Data from the Buero of Labour Statistics: https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=3.22&year1=197901&year2=202208

 don't get me wrong, that is still a major difference, but it is more believable than a ~3000% increase.