iOS 18, Inreach killer?

akafaultline wrote:

  Wouldn’t the satellite capabilities be similar with all trails and the iPhone messenger ?

No. There's a big difference between receiving a relatively high powered signal from a sat (GPS) and sending a signal up to a sat from a small device with limited power and major compromises made to antenna design (Iridium).

akafaultline wrote:

I understand the hesitancy of apples new messenger but at the same time I have had absolutely horrible experience with inreach on the beaches of Kodiak -can’t get more open terrain  than an ocean…to the point I just stopped trying

Likewise I’ve used all trails on my iPhone in mystery canyon and many other deep canyons with surprising accuracy.   Wouldn’t the satellite capabilities be similar with all trails and the iPhone messenger ?

All depends if a satellite is nearby. You could be in the most open space imaginable, but with no satellites overhead, vs in a slot canyon in UT with one directly overhead...

Informed/Inspired by this thread, I updated my iOS prior to this weekends peak-bagging fun. I did some side-by-side tests of the iPhone with the Garmin inReach mini II from the Lake Reflection area in central Kings Canyon NP (middle of the Sierra). It wasn't a slot canyon, but it was a fairly deep canyon with lots of other potential obstacles (trees, rocks, etc). In general, I was pretty impressed by the iPhone functionality. Messages sent simultaneously were received nearly simultaneously ~1 min later. 

The interface to point & find a satellite position is fairly intuitive and most times I was able to reasonably quickly find a lock. As others have noted, the major downside is in receiving messages as this relies on continuing to point at the satellite for an unknown period of time. As such, I'll be keeping my Garmin for now ... but Apple is sure to improve on this already impressive technology. 

Pat Marrinan wrote:

All depends if a satellite is nearby. You could be in the most open space imaginable, but with no satellites overhead, vs in a slot canyon in UT with one directly overhead...

Kodiak was an example of several failed attempts to get in reach to work.  Also, I was in Kodiak for a 10 days on a hunting trip, and my whole group was having difficulty getting in reach to get messages in our out with various devices.  

The point is-I don’t feel inreach is the panacea that many claim it to be 

Tested again in mountainous terrain this time in the trees, had similar results as last time. Worked quickly and didn’t have any issues with sending. Interested to hear more folks experience.

akafaultline wrote:

Kodiak was an example of several failed attempts to get in reach to work.  Also, I was in Kodiak for a 10 days on a hunting trip, and my whole group was having difficulty getting in reach to get messages in our out with various devices.  

The point is-I don’t feel inreach is the panacea that many claim it to be 

When was this? My partner was a few hundred miles north of you this summer and didn't mention any issues. We communicated weekly.

I’m curious if it mattters which iPhone you have? Is the hardware better on newer models? I used a 14. I’m sure I had more patience I wound have gotten a better signal, but again, I lost about 15% battery in a very very short period of time (5-7 minutes) 

The other issue is if you have a really weak cell signal I don’t think you can use the satellite and at the same time, can’t use your regular text either.

I think the best solution is to climb alone and not have anybody at home who cares about you. 

Hmmmm. My Garmin plan currently costs me about $120 a year. Maybe $140. Totally reliable, single purpose rescue device that automatically connects my SOS to a SOS dispatch. Think I'll keep it.

It's great that my iPhone can now send texts through the sat network, but I'm hardly ready to ditch the Garmin and rely entirely on an iPhone feature that is WAY down the list of what is important to Apple. Happy to have both, options, though, in the instance where my life really depends on it. 

M L wrote:

The other issue is if you have a really weak cell signal I don’t think you can use the satellite and at the same time, can’t use your regular text either.

Wait, are you saying it won't work at all if there's even a tiny bit of cell signal? Turning off cellular data in settings should take care of that, anyway. 

Andrew Rice wrote:

Wait, are you saying it won't work at all if there's even a tiny bit of cell signal? Turning off cellular data in settings should take care of that, anyway. 

That’s what I found, but im not tech savvy 

In my experience so far, I don't see purpose built sat-phones being phased out anytime soon, but for now I have been appreciating the feature of iOS 18 quite a bit since adopting it. It's nice when you are going cragging at a familiar area and want to let your friends know what wall you decided to go to when you don't have service and they do. It is slightly cumbersome to hold up your phone to send a text, but it happens fast enough. The biggest drawback is receiving messages can be quite a pain because the recipient may not respond right away, and you need to keep the phone connected to see a response. TLDR; I've found it to be a nice addition to my kit that I have and will continue to use, but it will not be a replacement for higher end satellite phones.

Orion Marini wrote:

In my experience so far, I don't see purpose built sat-phones being phased out anytime soon….but it will not be a replacement for higher end satellite phones.

I spend a lot of time in areas without sat phones on jobs with big budgets.  In my experience sat phone are almost already obsolete.  We bring one or two but the only thing they are ever used for is to call family.  During an emergency or mission critical communications everyone uses an inreach.  The error rate of communication is so much higher with sat phones than sat based texting.

I’m still on a iPhone 13 mini so no sat texting for me but I look forward to when I have to update my phone and have the option to sat text.

akafaultline wrote:

I understand the hesitancy of apples new messenger but at the same time I have had absolutely horrible experience with inreach on the beaches of Kodiak -can’t get more open terrain  than an ocean…to the point I just stopped trying

Likewise I’ve used all trails on my iPhone in mystery canyon and many other deep canyons with surprising accuracy.   Wouldn’t the satellite capabilities be similar with all trails and the iPhone messenger ?

You're talking about two completely different satellite constellations and capabilities.  All Trails is using GPS (you just get timing from them to establish position location information) in MEO medium earth orbit

inreach is using iridium ( iridium.com/network/ )  imessage is using Globalstar ( globalstar.com/en-us) both these are LEO.  Low earth orbit.  To have 100% availability you need more sats overhead because they are moving faster and aren't visible as long...

Jim U wrote:

You're talking about two completely different satellite constellations and capabilities.  All Trails is using GPS (you just get timing from them to establish position location information) in MEO medium earth orbit

inreach is using iridium ( iridium.com/network/ )  imessage is using Globalstar ( globalstar.com/en-us) both these are LEO.  Low earth orbit.  To have 100% availability you need more sats overhead because they are moving faster and aren't visible as long...

   

Also to add to this, GPS is not two-way communication, requiring just your device to listen as a receiver.

M L wrote:

I’m curious if it mattters which iPhone you have? Is the hardware better on newer models? I used a 14. I’m sure I had more patience I wound have gotten a better signal, but again, I lost about 15% battery in a very very short period of time (5-7 minutes) 

The other issue is if you have a really weak cell signal I don’t think you can use the satellite and at the same time, can’t use your regular text either.

I think the best solution is to climb alone and not have anybody at home who cares about you. 

Definitely possible! In both my tests I had no cell service, completely disconnected. I am on an iPhone 15 Pro. I’d be curious to hear how this works when you are 100% on Sat.

It may also be useful to say that these tests were both in the 4 Corners region where you can’t even make a call while you drive because the cell service is so spotty.

Is it cell or sat? I currently believe sat is not cell dependent. Wrong? 

M L wrote:

I’m curious if it mattters which iPhone you have? Is the hardware better on newer models? I used a 14. I’m sure I had more patience I wound have gotten a better signal, but again, I lost about 15% battery in a very very short period of time (5-7 minutes) 

iPhone radio engineering changes significantly from model year to model year. You will definitely get better performance out of the satellite feature from the most recent iPhone, than an iPhone a few years old.

Mikey Schaefer wrote:

I’m still on a iPhone 13 mini so no sat texting for me but I look forward to when I have to update my phone and have the option to sat text.

Why oh why did Apple stop the mini line? I don't want a bigger phone (than my 13 mini), but this satellite texting capability is sure useful for outdoor enthusiasts. 

M L wrote:

I’m curious if it mattters which iPhone you have? Is the hardware better on newer models? I used a 14. I’m sure I had more patience I wound have gotten a better signal, but again, I lost about 15% battery in a very very short period of time (5-7 minutes) 

The other issue is if you have a really weak cell signal I don’t think you can use the satellite and at the same time, can’t use your regular text either.

I think the best solution is to climb alone and not have anybody at home who cares about you. 

never been a "ohmahgawd need the new hottness every yr" despite being a major commo nerd.  I went from a 13 to 15 pro. last review I saw made sense.  15 to 16 not really worth it (batt, camera, cpu improvements, but maybe not enough to see or justify) 14 to 16, yah you'll see the improvements.

The only way I've been able to trigger the sat messaging is cell out areas. I live right edge of Smoky mountains so finding a dead zone is pretty easy.  but as soon as you get one bar the sat shuts off - but typically with one bar you can at least send a basic SMS text.  I've not been able to force my phone into sat mode.  I think the 14 will support sat messaging also, that was the first model they intro'd it, but with the prompts only SOS.  So logic says that increases capability is software so if your on iOS 18 time to find a cell dead spot.

Jim U wrote:

never been a "ohmahgawd need the new hottness every yr" despite being a major commo nerd.  I went from a 13 to 15 pro. last review I saw made sense.  15 to 16 not really worth it (batt, camera, cpu improvements, but maybe not enough to see or justify) 14 to 16, yah you'll see the improvements.

The only way I've been able to trigger the sat messaging is cell out areas. I live right edge of Smoky mountains so finding a dead zone is pretty easy.  but as soon as you get one bar the sat shuts off - but typically with one bar you can at least send a basic SMS text.  I've not been able to force my phone into sat mode.  I think the 14 will support sat messaging also, that was the first model they intro'd it, but with the prompts only SOS.  So logic says that increases capability is software so if your on iOS 18 time to find a cell dead spot.

have you tried turning off cell data in settings and see if that triggers the sat function?