Hot Takes 2024

june m wrote:

I must be a caveman. One day I forgot my shoes pretty far from the car so I decided to tough it out and follow a 5.10 route barefoot ( which is about as hard as I climb unless I'm having a really good day.) it worked well. but My feet got sore From the sharp edges. So the next route, I climbed using my hiking shoes, but of course they didn't edge at all. And then a woman let me borrow her shoes that were about three sizes too big for me and I still couldn't edge but I could still climb 5.10. I have to agree that it's mostly on hard granite friction that shoes make a huge difference.

I think you misunderstood my point. 

High end shoes are a precision tool, if you not have the skills to use such a tool they are less beneficial. Using a high quality tool will not make you actually have more skill.

A knowledgeable craftsman can still make do with bad tools and do okay, but to do their best work they need their precision tools. 

Michael B wrote:

Using the word „mission“ to describe your weekend-trip or „quiver“ to describe your heap of ropes or shoes is a little cringe. Relax, you‘re – probably – neither an archer nor a navy seal.

My understanding (from my husband who is an archer) is that the use of quiver to describe a collection of objects is inaccurate anyway.  A quiver is the elongated thingy that you store the arrows in.  If you say a quiver of arrows you're talking about the object that then contains 4-7 arrows (10 at the outside) that might be in the quiver. So a quiver of shoes might be 1- 1.5 pairs of shoes.  A quiver of ropes makes no sense because you could not fit a climbing rope into a quiver. 

I can't quite tell yet from scanning through this thread how a hot take differs from an opinion.  If I can ever figure it out, maybe I'll have something meaningful to contribute.

Matt Heinen wrote:

Attempting to flash routes, particularly routinely, is a really fun way to get good at reading rock on the fly, and introduces a wide variety of fun, challenging routes to your day. If one wanted to chase numbers, they'd spend 9 full days on one project

Why wouldn’t one try to on-site then?

Jon.R wrote:

Why wouldn’t one try to on-site then?

All the better imo 

phylp phylp wrote:

I can't quite tell yet from scanning through this thread how a hot take differs from an opinion.  If I can ever figure it out, maybe I'll have something meaningful to contribute.

almostrad wrote:

that's a very strange jump.

If you're talking about something hooking your side and arresting your fall instead of the rope you have bigger problems to worry about, and at very best, your gear loops or the waistbelt on your harness are more likely to catch anyway which is still bad news.  Second, the plastic clip will just break.

Why do you clutch to the chalkbag biner so tightly?  What keeps you in this prison? 

Nah, bad take. Plastic clip, sure that would be fine. I’m not saying I climb with a biner, I’m saying that if I had just cord or a biner I would choose the biner. It’s all you that care about the way you look.

Here's a couple fixed gear hot takes:

- If more than one route at a crag has permadraws, the whole crag should have permadraws. I don't want to bring my quickdraws just for the warmup (which is extra stupid because it means the one route everyone queues up for is the one that has the slowest logistics). They're just as much of an eyesore on 5.13 as on 5.10. In for a penny, in for a pound.

- Most non-splitter multipitch trad routes in the US would be better off with some fixed gear to allow a more direct line (and a smaller rack). Europe does this well and Red Rocks and Cochise are the best domestic examples. Most areas give a lot of leeway to routes above 5.12 to be developed in this style but it's rare at the moderate grades.

Tom Rangitsch wrote:

Can you expand on this? Genuinely curious and not trying to be offensive.  I just don't get how the existence of a bolt on a route that one chooses not to clip will diminish that climber's experience.  It seems more like a person that complains about a bolt they choose not to clip is trying to force their world view on others who might not be so bold.  It seems elitist and like bold climbers are saying that their way of experiencing a route is the only correct way.

It looks like my squad fielded this one before I got a chance to respond, having spent the day gaining enough XP to level up into the Trad Dad class by purchasing a Toyota Sienna. ;-)

Tal and Marc provided excellent responses that encapsulate most of my position. A recently-ignited dumpster by that road biker from Texas regarding runout 5.6 at Enchanted Rock had some good material as well. There are plenty of other discussions on the topic that can be unearthed with a Google site:search of "bold trad" or "spicy climbing." 

This debate has been percolating for many years, and the arguments have never been changed; they've just been dressed in new colors of Lycra or sackcloth and ashes.

With a few geographical exceptions, there is plenty of rock to allow for a full spectrum of climbing experiences, whether closely-bolted beginner sport climbs or mentally gripping headpoint testpieces.

By way of analogy, how about this: let's say there's a 5.12a at the Erratic. Super fun. But not everyone can climb 5.12a, so why shouldn't we just drill pockets to bring it down to 5.9, and those who want a 5.12a can just skip the pockets? 

Does that offend your sensibilities? Well, it's no different than retrobolting a bold line and telling those who want the original experience to skip the bolts. Yeah, the end result is the same on paper (you climb a 5.12a or 5.9, or you climb with big air potential), but you've always got a bailout option that attenuates the heat. Or rather, dumbs down the route by forfeiting any prerequisite sense of commitment.

Well, that was quite the diatribe, and I even deleted a few paragraphs, so hopefully you got something helpful out of it. Thanks for asking for clarification.

TLDR: Bring the climber up to the climb, not the climb down to the climber.

José Flovin wrote:

Nah, bad take. Plastic clip, sure that would be fine. I’m not saying I climb with a biner, I’m saying that if I had just cord or a biner I would choose the biner. It’s all you that care about the way you look.

That’s fine if you’re insecure about it (and bro I am too) but I promise you it’s a function choice.

I don’t know a soul in my moderately lengthy climbing career that has stuck with the biner once they’re out of their early phase.
it’s a seemingly convenient option that has more cons than pros dawg. Clip your gear out and I wait to hear about the day you see the light.  

Alex C wrote:

No need to buy a whole new chalk bag. I made my own strap with nylon webbing and a GearAid buckle for like $5 plus 10 minutes of labor. More secure than the default kind and doubles as bail cord if needed.

Or just use some webbing and tie a water knot.

jbak x wrote:

Or just use some webbing and tie a water knot.

Or just buy one for $5 from rei…

almostrad wrote:

I don’t know a soul in my moderately lengthy climbing career that has stuck with the biner once they’re out of their early phase.

My chalk is on a DMM XS biner and will stay there indefinitely for a variety of reasons, the most important for me being I absolutely loath a crowded waist and don’t want a circumferential cord to deal with in addition to everything else 

Tanner James wrote:

My chalk is on a DMM XS biner and will stay there indefinitely for a variety of reasons, the most important for me being I absolutely loath a crowded waist and don’t want a circumferential cord to deal with in addition to everything else 

Everyone has fun with the biner chalkbag until they climb an off width and have to get rescued by their step brother 

Hayutake: I would gladly eat a crock pot full of accessory biner chalkbags if it meant I never had to see a quad again. Especially one that is endowed with four throbbing, veiny HMS lockers.

Brush yer holds ya filthy animal

almostrad wrote:

What about really inconvenient 5.12

Inconvenient to get to, or inconvenient to clip? 

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

Inconvenient to get to, or inconvenient to clip? 

Inconvenient that he has to climb sport

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

Power drills, or this point is moot. 

So going ground-up in a protected Wilderness Area means hand drilling (or none at all). And hand drilling labor is, was and always will be a valid reason for running it out. 

For those who never climbed before a world of cheap and easy battery powered hammer drills, it's a lot of work to hand drill esp. in bullet granite, and the like.

I've drilled by hand several times. It's a pain. It's not really an excuse to put up poorly protected stuff. Less closely bolted than you might otherwise? Sure. Dangerous? No.

Connor Dobson wrote:

I think you misunderstood my point. 

High end shoes are a precision tool, if you not have the skills to use such a tool they are less beneficial. Using a high quality tool will not make you actually have more skill.

A knowledgeable craftsman can still make do with bad tools and do okay, but to do their best work they need their precision tools. 

Well, duh, I would've much rather had my good shoes. I can definitely tell when climbing in good shoes that they stick to nothing I just have to imagine that they will work. My limiting factor to climbing tends to be skin on my fingertips. 

Natalie Blackburn wrote:

I've drilled by hand several times. It's a pain. It's not really an excuse to put up poorly protected stuff. Less closely bolted than you might otherwise? Sure. Dangerous? No.

I don't understand the mindset that EVERYTHING has to be bolted to the lowest common denominator of risk. Can you please explain?

Because that mindset isn't very far from thinking every route needs bolts 3 feet apart and you might as well be top roping at that point.