Etiquette for found gear

What is take your on found gear(cam or high value)? If you were to find gear on a route and then bragging about it on your social media. Then one of your followers tells you the found gear is their friends dropped (from a cliff, more than a pitch) gear. What would you do if you were the finder?

My partner and I reclimbed this route after descending, but did not see the gear.

This person seems to have decided they will keep the gear bc they have once lost the same gear and felt this was their replacement from the climbing god. I have contacted them but they are not opening my message  

If I were them, first I would post the booty on the local climbing page, it was dropped at a frequently climbed route. Second, I would give it back if I later found out someone was looking for it. Or just don’t brag about it on social media and just keep it.  

Can't have your cake and eat it too (read: brag about it and risk being an asshole)

I'd keep it. I don't care about your friend that dropped gear and was too lazy to go get it.

Etiquette is that the finder decides whether they keep or return. They are under no obligation to return - you could be lying about it for all they know. 

Step 1: learn to not drop your gear. Yes it happens but hopefully this is a lesson. Step 2: if you drop your gear go get it. Step 3: If you consciously walk away from dropped/left gear you give it up. 

grug gwrote:

Etiquette is that the finder decides whether they keep or return. They are under no obligation to return - you could be lying about it for all they know. 

Step 1: learn to not drop your gear. Yes it happens but hopefully this is a lesson. Step 2: if you drop your gear go get it. Step 3: If you consciously walk away from dropped/left gear you give it up. 

The gear was dropped and bounced off a cliff, it dropped more than a pitch. My partner and I reclimbed it after descending and did not see it. 

J Lwrote:

Can't have your cake and eat it too (read: brag about it and risk being an asshole)

I can’t find this thread. Can you link?

If you drop or leave gear, and you care about it, then go get it yourself. Otherwise, it’s booty.

If you are lucky enough to have someone find it and try to return it, then yay for you. But the primary responsibility still lies with the person who left or dropped it- not the person who found it.

Can we talk about dogs at the crags now?

Some people value gear more than being kind.  Karma usually settles the score - (if you believe in that sort of thing).

I have tried to give back all gear I have found or bootied in the last few years, nobody ever claims it. Better to try and give it back since you’ll probably end up keeping it anyway.

Amy Uhlwrote:

The gear was dropped and bounced off a cliff, it dropped more than a pitch. My partner and I reclimbed it after descending and did not see it. 

And by leaving you relinquished any claim to it. 

If it comes back to you, great. But best not to get too attached to any given piece. Some day you might have to choose to leave this piece in order to save your own bacon. Get used to it.

E MuuDwrote:

Some people value gear more than being kind.  Karma usually settles the score - (if you believe in that sort of thing).

Karma (in Hinduism and Buddhism) is the sum of a person's actions in this and previous states of existence, viewed as deciding their fate in future existences, not the current one.

This informal adaptation by many in the climbing world, particularly those predisposed to losing their gear, involves even more fantastical belief than the religious origin of its meaning and use

Some have sat at home and watched too many Hallmark movies and cartoons when they were young, where it all seems to even out wrapped with a bow.

While there is the finders keepers adage, there is also the law regarding found property over a certain value and the duty to return it. That is there is not really anything such as finders keepers without one doing some due diligence (which can be accomplished by reporting the find to the pertinent authorities and waiting for the clock to run out, often 90 days or less). As such, if the finder is being a douche I would file a police report and let it be sorted out that way.

I have always had the understanding that if I leave or drop gear or was unable to retrieve gear then that gear is up for grabs to the person who found it.  I bailed off Mithral Dihedral in a thunderstorm several years ago and left several cams behind.  When I got down to Lone Pine I went into Elevation Sport and told the guy working there that there was a few hundred dollars worth of cams on Mithral if he was willing to go up and get them.   I made the decision to bail knowing full well it was my choice to leave the gear.   If I dropped gear and wasn't able to find it or didn't look for it then the person who finds it gets it.  I would never expect anyone to try and track me down to return gear I willfully or accidentally left or dropped.  

If I found some gear I might try and find the person depending on the circumstances.   I have walked the base of Moonlight Buttress and El Cap and found several cams and other gear but I have never felt obligated to try and find the owner.  

Dow Williamswrote:

Karma (in Hinduism and Buddhism) is the sum of a person's actions in this and previous states of existence, viewed as deciding their fate in future existences, not the current one.

This informal adaptation by many in the climbing world, particularly those predisposed to losing their gear, involves even more fantastical belief than the religious origin of its meaning and use

Some have sat at home and watched too many Hallmark movies and cartoons when they were young, where it all seems to even out wrapped with a bow.

Did I say anything about WHEN Karma would settle the score? ??

Allen Sandersonwrote:

While there is the finders keepers adage, there is also the law regarding found property over a certain value and the duty to return it. That is there is not really anything such as finders keepers without one doing some due diligence (which can be accomplished by reporting the find to the pertinent authorities and waiting for the clock to run out, often 90 days or less). As such, if the finder is being a douche I would file a police report and let it be sorted out that way.

Maybe the police will find the infamous stolen creedence tapes while they are working in shifts to solve the mystery of the dropped and maybe found climbing widgit.

If you left it behind and someone else found it then it is booty and they are under no obligation to return it.  if they go so far as to post about it on social media, they are probably way to excited about it and the chances you are going to get it back are near zero.  

The only time I would try and return gear is if:

1. It was a ton of gear obviously accidentally lost (in a backpack or something).

2. It was a ton of gear left in the wall as the result of an accident.

it’s so simple yet the climbing community has apparently ceased to comprehend it: if you find a piece of gear, it’s booty and it’s yours. Don’t brag about it though. However, this comes with the caveat that you will one day lose pieces of gear. It’s part of the circle of life 

If your friend dropped your cam, they owe you a new one to replace it. If you dropped your cam, you relinquished ownership of it when you dropped it off the side of a cliff.

Most of us have done it before, and it's a good lesson to learn. You'll be more careful about dropping things in the future.

Who knows, maybe this experience will make you pay even .01% more attention when climbing that remote alpine peak and dropping your belay device could mean a very bad day, or worse.

Be thankful for all gained experience. Whether you perceive it to be "good" or "bad" is often only a matter of perspective.

Gear karma. What goes around comes around. 

Luigi Mwrote:

it’s so simple yet the climbing community has apparently ceased to comprehend it: if you find a piece of gear, it’s booty and it’s yours. Don’t brag about it though. However, this comes with the caveat that you will one day lose pieces of gear. It’s part of the circle of life 

This has always been my understanding. You win some, you loose some. It evens out in the wash. And that's the "etiquette", whether I (we) agree with it or not, it just is.

It's kind of a fun game when you win and not so fun when you loose, but everyone gets to play and playing is fun, even if you loose, because others get to have fun too.

Note: I didn't make up the game or the rules, but that's the game and those are the rules, nonetheless. And you asked. The law may have different POV, for those who don't like to play games and having fun, however, I can't say.

Of course, if you find gear you can take the extra steps to find the owner. That's still your perogative. Others can do the same, if they so choose.

Sounds like the bragging done may be grounds for returning the gear, since they goofed on that front, though, not sure who's going to enforce it. Then again, dropping gear is kind of a "sin" (compared to the various reasons for having to bail, for example), since it's dangerous and should be avoided at all cost. And sure, sh*t happens, were all human and make mistakes, but loosing gear in such a manner could be part of a lesson now learned the hard way. I'd say it's the least likely to garner any sympathy from the gamers playing the game.

Anyway, I have mixed feelings and understand both sides, but that's my understanding of the current attitude around booty; don't shoot the messenger.