How Long Are You Allowed to Rest on a Ledge to Still Qualify as a Send

Climbing humor.

Daniel Joder wrote:

I believe Ondra takes some pretty long rests on some of his sends…. Usually hanging from some contorted kneebar. And I mean rests of several minutes. Maybe some of you more in the know Ondra fans can share some specific examples as I can’t recall from which video I got that idea. 

On Bon Voyage Ondra climbed up into a hole and rested 7 1/2 minutes. There is no cheating, only lying.

Joan Creus wrote:

Not that it particularly matters, but I think the standard for a redpoint is simply "don't weigh the rope". Taking this to the limit, I vaguely recall stories from British climbers who would climb up a couple pieces, place them, downclimb to the ground, rest for arbitrarily long, and go back up and take the redpoint (Pete Whittaker and Dave MacLeod perhaps?). 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIurTukUOpU

Dave McLeod goes well beyond resting on a ledge.  He

• Downclimbs to the start
• Belays someone on another route 
• Has a cup of tea
• Climbs another route
• More tea 
• Reties and finishes the send

IIRC, he said the downclimb was the crux.

According to the “climbing is neither” podcast, you can fall asleep as long as you don’t get to REM sleep. Seems as reasonable a rule as anything. 

Here’s a simple litmus test that most can probably agree on.  You cannot relieve yourself on the ledge and claim the send.    Either #1or2….then you’re turning it into a big wall and out of acceptable style.   Other than that, you can stay as long as your bowels and bladder hold out.  

Cosmic Hotdog wrote:

if I climb with somebody who tries to put me on the clock for taking a rest on a ledge, that's the last time I climb with that person. We're doing this for fun, or at least we should be. 

Ok Chris, I bet your belayer is having a lot of fun while your shaking out your arms on that big ledge for 10 minutes!

Mike-Mayhem wrote:

I say 1 minute max. If you stand on a ledge for over a minute "resting" before continuing the route, that's equivalent to a top rope send.

Sounds like you’re more interested in who can swing their dick the farthest than climbing. 

Mike-Mayhem wrote:

I say 1 minute max. If you stand on a ledge for over a minute "resting" before continuing the route, that's equivalent to a top rope send.

If that’s the case, then Honnold did not send Half Dome because he stood on that ledge for over a minute.  But is it a top rope send if there’s no rope?

F r i t z wrote:

I'm relieved that my "sharp end recovery nap" tactics escape your censure.

Do they? Pretty sure that nap was longer than a minute, once you found a way to get in there. 

Tactics get blurry when taken to an extreme. Downclimbing and resting hours/days between the 'send' is poor style in my book but totally acceptable for the SEND ... I like to use this example of 2 climbers who did a traverse and went home and rested 1-2 weeks between pitches (if not more) doing the "FA" - great wall of china at the Gunks. Seems ridiculous to consider this a "continuous climb" b/c you're sleeping in your bed at home for 10 days between. SO you can give your buddy a hard time, but rests are great, and often needed... Ppl downgrade stuff when they find kneebars. If its on route, its fair game for rest, and you'd be the 'stupid one' for not utilizing a needed rest when you get the chance.

It's a silly question since the answer is obviously "as long as you want" - but it sorta exposes why it's weird/hard/boring to try really hard to redpoint (or belay!) a route at your limit with a comfy no-hands rest before and after stretches of pumpy climbing. 

When I've been the climber I've just told my belayer to tie and knot and take a seat, eat, change clothes etc. If you care about the send and the climbing is in doubt above the rest, your incentives are really to just rest a LONG time. What's more annoying for your belayer, to tie a knot and wait 5 minutes, or to have to belay you again on another redpoint attempt because you as the climber got impatient and started climbing again while still pumped?

7/10

If you are allowed to rest as long as you would like on a ledge or even downclimb back to the ground, why do we give so much credit to teams climbing "alpine style"? If a send is a send, shouldn't a siege style tactic be just as celebrated as a ground up ascent, assuming no one ever weighted their rope?

Mike-Mayhem wrote:

If you are allowed to rest as long as you would like on a ledge or even downclimb back to the ground, why do we give so much credit to teams climbing "alpine style"? If a send is a send, shouldn't a siege style tactic be just as celebrated as a ground up ascent, assuming no one ever weighted their rope?

Excellent point. I bet if Donini, Kennedy, and the Lowes descended back to the ground and rested their pumped forearms, they would've sent the north ridge of Latok in 78 for sure

Mark Pilate wrote:

Here’s a simple litmus test that most can probably agree on.  You cannot relieve yourself on the ledge and claim the send.    Either #1or2….then you’re turning it into a big wall and out of acceptable style.   Other than that, you can stay as long as your bowels and bladder hold out.  

Ok but if I shit myself a little on the crux of Bachar-Yerian and still send does that not count

Like hypothetically 1 or 2 jolly rancher sized turds 

Brennan VanDyke wrote:

Ok but if I shit myself a little on the crux of Bachar-Yerian and still send does that not count

Like hypothetically 1 or 2 jolly rancher sized turds 

It depends on the consistency of the turds. You’re within the acceptable size range but how solid were they?

Stefanos Apostle wrote:

Ondra has been timing his rests for years to make sure they dont exceed one minute, even on boulders...boom roasted

This has to be satire, right? That man takes multiple minute long rests.

Isaac Gray wrote:

It depends on the consistency of the turds. You’re within the acceptable size range but how solid were they?

Hypothetically, the mechanism that created them was much tighter than usual and these turds would have been very solid.

P B wrote:

This has to be satire, right? That man takes multiple minute long rests.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji4At78H5Ys

You are opening a whole new box of tea and crumpets by bringing an E-grade into the convo buddy...Ondra is obviously only doing this because if you don't take the proper time to contemplate your death and the family you will leave behind on something as extreme as an E12, you aren't getting the full value of the climb thus making it easier to climb. James graded the "Walk of Life" E12 because the whole time he was walking this climb he was thinking about what would happen to the life of his pet gerbil Nigel if he blew any one of those shallow stoppers. If you dont have a gerbil, its E9