Flip Stops for cam slings

I've been using the blue, wide rubber bands from Broccoli and Petzl Strings for years (tried O-rings but didn't like it), and now there's a number of other makers. For example, I like the Cypher keepers because they're 'short' and give me more room to unclip on the doubled slings of WC Friends.

I like them because of the same benefits they provide on any quickdraw. Easy to clip even when suspended in space.

This particular model solves the problem of breaking the keeper if you clip the webbing above it. I don't care enough to switch out all my keepers, but someone just starting to switch from rubber bands or tape to a more reliable keeper may genuinely benefit from these. Also, they are very 'short' and don't take up much space down the sling. Nice design, in my opinion, although I haven't seen one or used one.

Since I love me a good thread derailment, I can’t resist…. I’ll join the fray

Tradibanwrote:

You’re always good for a guaranteed response Ricky.  

  Umm, isn’t the whole point of a “guarantee” (as close as one can come) to prevent a *possible* problem before it can happen, regardless of how likely it is?

Problem with this keeper is you don’t know when you will need it, thus the cons outweigh the unknowns.

Yeah, I love making it to a cruxy section, 45m into a 55m pitch, and trying to pull up the rope by fighting the pre-clipped cam against 150ft of rope, that’s the ticket! Where’s the face–palm emoji when you really need it.

Pro tip: For a tricky placement clip the rope first then place the piece.

Christian Heschwrote:

Since I love me a good thread derailment, I can’t resist…. I’ll join the fray

  Umm, isn’t the whole point of a “guarantee” (as close as one can come) to prevent a *possible* problem before it can happen, regardless of how likely it is?

Yeah, I love making it to a cruxy section, 45m into a 55m pitch, and trying to pull up the rope by fighting the pre-clipped cam against 150ft of rope, that’s the ticket! Where’s the face–palm emoji when you really need it.

Ricky’s brother in arms eh? You two would make quite the pair of coneheads on the wall. 

You missed the point of the “guarantee” and you’re doing it wrong if you fight the rope with a pre-clipped cam. Pro tip: Use an extension or at least a draw and stop clipping so high!

Tradibanwrote:

Pro tip: For a tricky placement clip the rope first then place the piece.

An important note - Tradi’s definition of a tricky placement is a prefect #2 in a splitter crack, at the creek. Or a bolt that doesn’t have a permadraw on it. 

Tradibanwrote:

Ricky’s brother in arms eh? You two would make quite the pair of coneheads on the wall. 

You missed the point of the “guarantee” and you’re doing it wrong if you fight the rope with a pre-clipped cam. Pro tip: Use an extension or at least a draw and stop clipping so high!

Yeah, it’s wayy faster to clip an alpine draw to your cam, then extend it, then clip the alpine draw to the rope, THEN place your piece than it is to place your piece and clip the rope to it. (You can only understand the nuances to this if you climb 5.13+ on gear)

Bug Boywrote:

Yeah, it’s wayy faster to clip an alpine draw to your cam, then extend it, then clip the alpine draw to the rope, THEN place your piece than it is to place your piece and clip the rope to it. (You can only understand the nuances to this if you climb 5.13+ on gear)

Are you guys really this clueless about these techniques?? If not, color me trolled.

Played around with these this weekend. They don’t appear to make the sling notably stiffer. I could see how they theoretically might walk a bit more in specific rope movements maybe but it is such an insignificantly small difference that I am not concerned.

Install is easy (easier if you set them in warm water first) and they work great. I think another use case is for folks who find themselves routinely pinkpointing, as I find that pulling my rope consistently flips the carabiners upside down. I just put mine in my small pieces for now but definitely am a fan of them so far

A wire bread bag tie twists on in seconds and is free.

M Mwrote:

A wire bread bag tie twists on in seconds and is free.

It will also break if you put a draw on it and load it, which is the problem this product is seeking to solve. 

Just a quick PSA that Avant is now offering free sample packs of flip stops with purchase of other items. I ordered the neck lanyard a couple days ago, and was able to check a box for a sample pack with two flip stops. I don’t know that I would have bought the flip stops on my own, but I’m looking forward to trying them out. Maybe it’ll be revelatory?

i usually use at least a quickdraw on my cams.  The biner on the cam is mostly for racking.  If, for some reason, I want extra security from accidental unclipping, I'll take the racking carabiner off the cam and double up the rope-end carabiner on the sling.  I don't do it a lot, but I like the option, and fastening the racking carabiner in place would prevent that. Another issue for me is that I rack some of my smaller cams two to a carabiner.  With the Flip Stoppers I'd have to have a racking carabiner on every cam. So all in all these gadgets are something I don't think I have much use for.

The website contains a warning that is worth repeating: do not use these things to fix a carabiner to an alpine draw or any closed-loop sling.

As for stiffening the sling, the carabiner can't travel up the open loop..  With the FS installed, it seems more likely that rope motions will be transmitted to the cam because there is no play in the carabiner position. The sling isn't any stiffer, but the net effect might be like a stiffer sling.  I suspect this would be a very minor effect though so not clearly worth worrying about.

Haven’t tried the Avant flip stops but just got their TRS neck lanyard and it’s awesome…so much better in every way than things I’ve rigged up myself for TRS. In a world of nearly identical products I’m psyched to see a company engineering unique solutions to esoteric but important climbing problems. 

Josh Swrote:

Haven’t tried the Avant flip stops but just got their TRS neck lanyard and it’s awesome…so much better in every way than things I’ve rigged up myself for TRS. In a world of nearly identical products I’m psyched to see a company engineering unique solutions to esoteric but important climbing problems. 

30$ seems a bit steep for something that looks made for a specific TRS setup. Not sure that cord would be small enough to fit around my Vergo handle connection point like my tiny cord does now. And my tiny cord will surely break before 35lbs is applied to my neck!

Wade Bankswrote:

30$ seems a bit steep for something that looks made for a specific TRS setup. Not sure that cord would be small enough to fit around my Vergo handle connection point like my tiny cord does now. And my tiny cord will surely break before 35lbs is applied to my neck!

Yeah I mean to each their own on price. It has a bunch of really thoughtful features, eg the the neck cord is nicely padded, adjustable, and has a bit of stretch; the cord for going through the device works for me for a Taz and for a microtrax; it's nice to have a built in and super tiny carabiner. It's definitely cheaper to use a rigged up system (and if you're handier than me, your rigged up system is prob better than the various things I've tried!) but to me the neck/chest harness is by far the most annoying part of TR soloing and I TR solo at least once/week, so it was worth $30 to have something purpose-built that works well. I haven't had it long so can't speak to its longevity, but I like it so far.

Plus one on the Avant TRS neck lanyard. I futzed around with slings and shock cord before I bought Avant’s lanyard. I made do OK with homemade jobs, but at the end of the day that’s 30$ well spent in my book…YMMV and of course if you do anything associated with the word solo YGD. Cheers!

P.S… I’m all for supporting guys like Avant and Hownot2… Far as I’m concerned it’s a great variation on “buy local”. They may not be geographical close to me, but in the climbing world they are certainly my neighbors.

Not to turn this into an Avant love fest but their chest harness is great too and their soft rope pinches for LRS are legitimately an enormous QOL boost

Have been using the flip stops more and really love them. Also - haven’t bought bread that had a bag twist instead one of those plastic squares in probably a decade so can’t do the full comparison of the two solutions

A solution in need of a problem.

Elastic bands do the trick and only cost a couple bucks for 1000.  Three wraps and then clip one strand so the rubber friction stops the biner from flipping  If it breaks, no big deal, but I haven't had one break yet.

T Cwrote:

Elastic bands do the trick and only cost a couple bucks for 1000.  Three wraps and then clip one strand so the rubber friction stops the biner from flipping  If it breaks, no big deal, but I haven't had one break yet.

Hair bands work well