PSA RRG Privileged Dog owners

Tanner Jameswrote:

Someone quick help!! This beast looked DIRECTLY at me and tried to SNIFF MY DOGS BUTT!!! we need more rules immediately!!! We barely got out of there alive!!! In fact the situation was so dangerous I couldn’t handle this in person I could barely typing this through shaking hands!!!

Psychotic to think the life of an animal should be spent either locked inside or tied to a tree because Alan wants to be able to climb a rock in the middle of the woods without a dog judging him. Private land or National Parks can dictate rules but public land is the only place dogs can be dogs as long as they aren’t aggressive. Sounds like the gym might be a less stressful environment for some here

Or is it psychotic to not think running on the trails and the surrounding areas to the crag isn’t sufficient exercise and that the dogs need to wander around the crags too while we climb? Is the crag a dog park or a climbing wall? Are we there to climb or worry about what a dog will or won’t do?

We’ve both been to plenty of areas where there were dogs on and off leash but never this many with one group of people. If all the dogs know each other there is a pack mentality we’re not a part of. We are there to climb. Not manage other peoples dogs.

The coalition rules state climbing has increased in popularity and we all need to share the space. Meaning it’s uncool to bring a party to a crag be it people or dogs if you can’t share the space.  As owners we can ask our dogs to sit and chill after the hike out. It’s not cruel. It works both ways. Don’t get a working dog if you think that means you have free right to ignore the rights of others because ‘your dog needs to run’…I don’t see the point of your picture. If the dog is laying there you can attach it to something as you climb so you don’t have to fuss at it while you’re climbing if it bothers, growls at, or tries to guard the space when someone new walks up. 

Carrie Ballardwrote:

Or is it psychotic to not think running on the trails and the surrounding areas to the crag isn’t sufficient exercise and that the dogs need to wander around the crags too while we climb? Is the crag a dog park or a climbing wall? Are we there to climb or worry about what a dog will or won’t do?

We’ve both been to plenty of areas where there were dogs on and off leash but never this many with one group of people. If all the dogs know each other there is a pack mentality we’re not a part of. We are there to climb. Not manage other peoples dogs.

The coalition rules state climbing has increased in popularity and we all need to share the space. Meaning it’s uncool to bring a party to a crag be it people or dogs if you can’t share the space.  As owners we can ask our dogs to sit and chill after the hike out. It’s not cruel. It works both ways. Don’t get a working dog if you think that means you have free right to ignore the rights of others because ‘your dog needs to run’…I don’t see the point of your picture. If the dog is laying there you can attach it to something as you climb so you don’t have to fuss at it while you’re climbing if it bothers, growls at, or tries to guard the space when someone new walks up. 

@ Carrie...don't you have a Chihuahua?  That explains a great deal...

I was at the crag the other day and this lady brought her dog. The dog was running around jumping up on people. The lady kept calling it loudly and it was not listening. Someone else gave her a dirty look and she said "Oh he never listens."

Made me chuckle. At what point do you decide to leave your dog at home? I don't know, but if they never listen, maybe you should take them to obedience school before you take them to the crag.

Carrie Ballardwrote:

 Is the crag a dog park or a climbing wall? 

Is it literally the public outdoor land for everyone to enjoy and recreate on or your personal private exclusive wall? Trying to mandate how everyone else spends their time in the woods is a genuinely wild way to live. I absolutely loath music at the crag. If someone is playing music I will ask them to turn it down or off generally citing not being able to communicate with my partner. If they say no I’ll go somewhere else. At no point in that process will I start trying to create or cite rules nor will I follow up with a rant on the internet about a situation I can and should have handled and closed in person. Go outside and get some sun. 

Tanner Jameswrote:

Is it literally the public outdoor land for everyone to enjoy and recreate on or your personal private exclusive wall? Trying to mandate how everyone else spends their time in the woods is a genuinely wild way to live. I absolutely loath music at the crag. If someone is playing music I will ask them to turn it down or off generally citing not being able to communicate with my partner. If they say no I’ll go somewhere else. At no point in that process will I start trying to create or cite rules nor will I follow up with a rant on the internet about a situation I can and should have handled and closed in person. Go outside and get some sun. 

It’s privately owned land owned by the climber’s coalition, who have stated for years to keep your dogs under control and/or leashed.

 Having a pack of 4 dogs roaming a crag is neither, and people like this are the reason dogs AREN’T allowed a lot of places, and having issues with this threatens having to have new rules put in place.

The whole reason we have rules and laws in society is because people like this will just do whatever they wish, regardless of how it affects others. 

Jess Bwrote:

Dan and Carrie: No, you can not make someone else leash their dogs who doesn't want to (though you might prevail upon them to do so with diplomacy). I agree with the poster insinuating that it is you who are the dog owners acting privileged here. 

I agree you can’t make people leash their dogs which is why we left but you can ask after one of the dogs there growled at our Pittie before placing my chihuahua on the ground. The other owners of whatever random dogs completely ignored us as their dogs roamed around.

This is public land owned by the coalition and there are rules as to help enable the space to be shared. I don’t see one rule as to immediately be an asshole to someone else that had a good reason to questions a dog’s behavior.

Do I put my 9 lb dog down and ‘see’ what happens after he’s swarmed by 4-5 large dogs 70-80 pounds that he doesn’t know because the owners are completely and utterly dismissive? If asking the owners to either leash or prove they have control over their dogs is entitlement then yes I guess I was being entitled but those are also the rules at RRG  

We moved on but that doesn’t mean this situation couldn’t have been handled better and everyone could have shared a space.  No one tried and no one called their dog back to them because apparently the dogs there were above having any rules, boundaries or limitations laid out by their owners.

People saying wait until there’s an issue before asking someone to prove they have control over their animal is not appropriate. 

Having a pack of 4 dogs roaming a crag is neither

This is just about different people's ideas of what "control" means.  

Some peope say that if a dog approaches another person, smells their hand, smells another dog, runs around in circles, and so on--even if that dog is super friendly and not aggresive--that dog is out of control. 

Other people say that a dog is only out of countrol if it is behaving agressively and could potentially harm somebody, is barking incesantly, stealing food, and so on.

To return to your statement, those four dogs roaming the crag could be perfectly in control (according the one definition) despite your insistence that they are not (according to your definition). 

Basically, you are deciding what "control" means, because unleashed dogs at crags make you uncomfortable and annoyed. 

I'm different--I love unleashed dogs at crags!  I play with all of them.  They make me happy.  But, as I said, I don't bring Luna anymore, because it makes her stressed (It has nothing to do with humans).

We've been over all this soooooo many times.  Go back and read the previous dog threads.  

Bonus picture of Luna and her pack!

Bruno Schullwrote:

This is just about different people's ideas of what "control" means.  

Some peope say that if a dog approaches another person, smells their hand, smells another dog, runs around in circles, and so on--even if that dog is super friendly and not aggresive--that dog is out of control. 

Other people say that a dog is only out of countrol if it is behaving agressively and could potentially harm somebody, is barking incesantly, stealing food, and so on.

To return to your statement, those four dogs roaming the crag could be perfectly in control (according the one definition) despite your insistence that they are not (according to your definition). 

Basically, you are deciding what "control" means, because unleashed dogs at crags make you uncomfortable and annoyed. 

I'm different--I love unleashed dogs at crags!  I play with all of them.  They make me happy.  But, as I said, I don't bring Luna anymore, because it makes her stressed (It has nothing to do with humans).

We've been over all this soooooo many times.  Go back and read the previous dog threads.  

Bonus picture of Luna and her pack!

This is incorrect. We regularly share space over the years with both leashed and unleashed dogs. We just needed to make sure it was safe for my little guy before we put him on the ground. We were at the gallery 2 weeks ago with about 8 dogs some were leashed and some were not but since they weren’t all together it was easier to get a read on the situation. He met 2 large, new unleashed dogs this past week at the Red  

We also walked up to this crag with our pittie leashed and asked if the dogs were friendly. We unleashed the pittie to introduce him and he was growled at by the closest dog whom I don’t even know if the owner of that dog was the one to respond to us. Our pit is trained well on voice command and runs loose until we approach a crag and then he’s leashed to go up into the space.

Whatever happened here could have been handled better. We’ve shared space more than a lot but this bunch of people were dismissive and rude and no one even tried calling their dogs back to their side to prove they have voice control over their dog. This is not how you share space.

It doesn’t matter if it’s been said before. Apparently people still don’t know how to share space. 

Bruno Schullwrote:

This is just about different people's ideas of what "control" means.  

Some peope say that if a dog approaches another person, smells their hand, smells another dog, runs around in circles, and so on--even if that dog is super friendly and not aggresive--that dog is out of control. 

Other people say that a dog is only out of countrol if it is behaving agressively and could potentially harm somebody, is barking incesantly, stealing food, and so on.

To return to your statement, those four dogs roaming the crag could be perfectly in control (according the one definition) despite your insistence that they are not (according to your definition). 

Basically, you are deciding what "control" means, because unleashed dogs at crags make you uncomfortable and annoyed. 

I'm different--I love unleashed dogs at crags!  I play with all of them.  They make me happy.  But, as I said, I don't bring Luna anymore, because it makes her stressed (It has nothing to do with humans).

We've been over all this soooooo many times.  Go back and read the previous dog threads.  

Bonus picture of Luna and her pack!

I’m not going back and reading past posts. The entire point of this post is that we still have people with thick fkn skulls that are still showing they have absolutely no respect for other climbers.

This is shared space, and it’s a shared responsibility to make sure this is a safe environment!

I don’t care how well you think your unleashed dog is, what happens while you’re climbing or belaying and an actual aggressive dog comes up the trail? Or if they start playing amongst themselves and things take a bad turn? Whatcha gonna do when you’re stuck on a wall, or your climber is?

I’m no reading any previous posts, because this shit needs to be repeated until folks can have some respect for each other, or until assholes like this cause new rules to be put in place and dogs get banned here too. Because that’s what’ll happen. 

Tradibanwrote:

Don’t ya think the other people also had a “right” to be in said space?

By that logic, other people‘s toddlers have a “right” to run around my feet while I’m belaying. Dog, toddler, adult, I don’t care for any of the aforementioned pittering about my feet… but that’s just me…

Bruno Schullwrote:

It seems like you and these other owners just have different ideas about what "considerate" looks like.  

Fixed that for you, sir.

Some people do know how to share space and they do it by leaving their dogs at home. Believing you are an exception makes you entitled. Then coming on the internet and spewing your entitlement makes you seem extra entitled. Any of this coming home to yall or do you still feel as though you and your dogs are exceptions

Christian Heschwrote:

By that logic, other people‘s toddlers have a “right” to run around my feet while I’m belaying. Dog, toddler, adult, I don’t care for any of the aforementioned pittering about my feet… but that’s just me…

You’re proving my point.

Carrie Ballardwrote:

I agree you can’t make people leash their dogs which is why we left but you can ask after one of the dogs there growled at our Pittie before placing my chihuahua on the ground. The other owners of whatever random dogs completely ignored us as their dogs roamed around.

This is public land owned by the coalition and there are rules as to help enable the space to be shared. I don’t see one rule as to immediately be an asshole to someone else that had a good reason to questions a dog’s behavior.

Do I put my 9 lb dog down and ‘see’ what happens after he’s swarmed by 4-5 large dogs 70-80 pounds that he doesn’t know because the owners are completely and utterly dismissive? If asking the owners to either leash or prove they have control over their dogs is entitlement then yes I guess I was being entitled but those are also the rules at RRG  

We moved on but that doesn’t mean this situation couldn’t have been handled better and everyone could have shared a space.  No one tried and no one called their dog back to them because apparently the dogs there were above having any rules, boundaries or limitations laid out by their owners.

People saying wait until there’s an issue before asking someone to prove they have control over their animal is not appropriate. 

maybe they "didnt" want to share space with you

Leave the dogs at home!!!!

What a laughable shit show from the OP onward. You're all cast members of the dog shit show!  

We've got a good thing going here!  We're on our way to perfectly replicating the previous threads.

It didn't take long for dogs to be compared to kids.  That always happens.  Why are the anti-dog folks always the anti-kid folks too?

Next, somebody will mention that dogs sniff butts.  Anti-dog folks are so fixated on that.  It's like like they have an obsession?

The anti-dog crowd seems to be the most anti-social, anti-kid, squeemish, peevish, paranoid group around.  No wonder.  They all need some dog love!

Listen, folks, there just are never going to be universal leash laws, as much as you might hope so.  And, just like all people are different, all dogs are different, and no amount of training, socializing, breeding, leashing, muzzling and so forth is going to change that. 

So you just have to get used to dogs.  They're part of human life, and they have been for thousands of years.  And for good reason.  Dogs are better than most people.  

Pic of Luna!  Off leash in Italy!

I was down by the Baker River (Rumney, NH) one weekday last season with my dog relaxing after a day of climbing. She was wading around, sniffing, doing dog things. This group next to me asked if I could put her on a leash because they had a CAT with them. I politely told them that leashing my dog while she was swimming in the river was not safe for either of us. Then I turned to my buddy and whispered “what the actual fuck??” 

Everyone was fine and we had a nice time by the river. Not sure what the moral of this story is, other than don’t bring a cat to a national forest you complete crazy person…